Lord Frost who said Wales and Scotland not nations set for senior constitutional role in Liz Truss government
A peer who said that Wales and Scotland were not nations, the UK should become a “unitary state” with devolution “evolved back”, and independence should be made “impossible”, is set for a senior constitutional role in Liz Truss’ government.
Lord Frost is tipped to head up the Cabinet Office under Liz Truss, who will – barring a large upset – be announced as the new Prime Minister on Monday.
However Senior Scottish Tories have already expressed that the powerful role could undermine the Union, as the Cabinet Office is currently responsible for political and constitutional reform.
One leading Scottish Tory told the Times newspaper that Lord Frosts’ more “macho unionism” could “drive voters into the hands of the nationalists at a moment when they are becalmed”.
“The whole Union strategy — and it has boxed in the SNP — has been to stop the soft centre drifting towards independence. This sort of rhetoric endangers that.”
Lord Frost had raised eyebrows earlier this month when, writing in the Telegraph, he said that the devolved governments were “subordinate” to Westminster and that the UK Government needed to change how it discussed them.
He that a referendum on independence should “simply be impossible”, with a bar of 75 per cent of seats in the devolved parliament being in favour of independence, over an entire decade.
He said that letting part of the UK go would be a “massive national humiliation” and “morally wrong”.
‘Abandoned’
“The new government can start by changing its language,” Lord Frost said.
“Somehow we have all drifted into speaking as if this country were already a confederation made up of four ‘nations’ that have chosen to work together (but could equally choose differently). When we think like that, we end up having to constantly justify the existence of our country, on a purely transactional basis.
“But the UK is a unitary state, not a federation or a confederation. Both the 1707 and 1801 Acts of Union fused the participants into one state in which all were equal, first ‘Great Britain’, then the ‘United Kingdom’, with one sovereign legal personality and one Parliament and government.
“For all the noise, that is still the case.” He added: “Moreover, if you are a citizen of that unitary state, you are British.”
He added that the UK Government needed “to act” to stop devolved “mission creep”.
“The devolved administrations do not have powers in foreign relations or immigration – they are ‘reserved matters’,” he said.
“If the UK government does not police these boundaries, soon they will no longer exist.
“Meanwhile, I urge people in England not to give in to the ‘let them go’ argument. Partly because the break-up of the country would be a massive national humiliation. In Europe and beyond, it would be seen as a comeuppance which they would exploit to the full.
“But, more importantly, because it is morally wrong. Supporters of the Union in Scotland, people who have built their lives and families on the assumption of its permanence, should not be abandoned. The UK is everyone’s country and we must protect and support it.”
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Frost has just made the most powerful argument yet, by a Tory, in favour of Independence for Wales and Scotland. One has to assume that, given his position in life, as a prominent parliamentarian, he is not ignorant. This then suggests very strongly that he is driven by Unionist arrogance – not that he cannot understand that Scotland and Wales are separate nations, with their own culture, language and very different traditions to those of England, but rather in classic English nationalistic terms, refuses to recognise it. As my father used to say “There’s none so blind as them as… Read more »
Perhaps Lord Tosspot, sorry Frost, is saying things like this to actually whip up hatred in these nations which could lead to Wales and Scotland supporting independence. That could suit an English agenda to get rid of us. These people are masters at being cunning. I don’t trust them at all. Sly barstewards.
We all know who the true blue nationalists are. Gwynfor’s old take on “Britishness” applies to these headbangers.
Chimp’s Tea Party, we need the services of an Exorcist…the wilfully blind leading the blinkered…someone call the police…
Fat Shanks’ legacy Item 1… ‘Lord’ Frost, read his Wiki page, you could not make it up…
Good to see him taking on the Mayoralties and East Midlands and evolving back their devolution as well.
Must get popcorn suppliues.
We now need to prepare ourselves for the Madrid model transported to London. This is frightening, rigid centralism, where the core is championed and the periphery disparaged on a daily basis.
It’s going to be a very long two years I fear.
We now are witnessing the further rise of the regressive extreme English far-right with soon-to-be appointee to the next Conservative administration led by the dangerous political chameleon Liz Truss. Lord Frost in the recent past stated that both Wales & Scotland are not nations, not England I might add, who also said that he would effectively reverse devolution without a referendum and make it impossible for Scotland or Wales if they wished ever to become an independent state. The Tories are the political equiverlent of Islamic State. Remember, this hypocritical man championed British independence from the European Union but would… Read more »
The incoming P M and her cronies ARE FAR RIGHT FASCISTS AND TAKING AWAY OUR DEMOCRATIC VOTE FOR AN ELECTED ASEMBLY WELSH PARLIAMENT IS A DICTATORSHIP there is no other bloody words to describe it
Another independence supporting Tory. Keep it up you blues!
One of the key lines in Frost’s statements is: “If the UK government does not police these boundaries, soon they will no longer exist.” They only exist if we accept them. He and Truss are just individuals who may be in a position of power but as the UK has no written constitution none of us have to recognise and yield to their interpretation of the constitution. Boris has shown the weakness of the UK constitution that relies on conventions and tradition: when he didn’t like them he broke them for they are only conventions and traditions. If people want… Read more »
” Moreover, if you are a citizen of that unitary state, you are british”. Sorry frosty old son, don’t you dare stand there in your pig ignorance & your truly appalling arrogance & try to proclaim what nationality I or anyone on these islands should wrap ourselves in. For British read English as is projected to the outside world but which is being increasingly seen as laughable, chaotic & very toxic courtesy of your brand of political ( I use that word loosely) poison. I always had this idea that government is “by the people for the people” & not… Read more »
What a spectacular show of concite, from this arrogant neo fascist dictatorial pompous oaf. He claims it would be ” morally wrong” to allow us to determine our future as a independent state, how dare he use those words. Does he think we are lesser people than the English, who are afforded the option, of what is a basic right, not something his ilk can bestow. Dictatorship is what we have, not democracy, we need independence to rid ourselves from such ignorance and bile.
In Answer to your question DOES HE THINK WE ARE A LESSER PEOPLE YES THE ENGLISH TOFFS DO THEIR MOTTO WE ARE BORN TO RULE AND YOU ARE BORN TO SERVE not just Wales Scotland Northern Ireland it is the attitude they had in the days of the English Empire so nothing has changed and they see the 3 Celtic nations as part of the old empire
Dai, in my heart I know they believe we are below them, but in this day and age I woluld hope they had become more enlightened. But as you point out, they still have the attitudes of a discredited past, that should have ended long ago.
Wales has been treated as a colony of England for over 1000 years. We are still being treated in this manner. For the main thrust of Lord Frost’s argument to be that any country leaving the union would be a national humiliation, reveals his true colours. Namely, that he doesn’t care if Wales or Scotland would be better off as independent nation states all he cares about is England’s global standing and it accoutrements such as membership of the G7 and G20. We in Wales are a mere pawn, a sideshow in England’s crumbling global influence.
It is horrible but just what we need. TANGIBLE HATE RAMMED IN OUR FACES. You can smell its’ foul breath from the infected saliva dripping from its’ rotting fangs. This must be the evil monster ‘Big Dog’ they mentioned. Independence is nigh. These are the final desperate angry snarlings of a dying tinpot Empire.
This will not happen on my watch
Isn’t there a school of thought that creeping culture change works but using a sledgehammer to crack a nut sees that culture change rejected? Boris’ government (via Michael Gove) was pushing back against devolution in a way that, largely, only would have been noticed by us nerds on here but if Liz Truss (via Frost) wants to force people to decide then they might find it’s easier to jump from pro-devolution to devo-max (or further) than it is the other way. A hard 2 years ahead – how far will they get with their awful plans? – but I can’t… Read more »
Maybe, in deference to his lordship, we now need to draw a close to the Six Nations Championship, as we are obviously not nations!
We pesky welsh people don’t know our place………………..
I’ve previously thought the claim that the Tories are Fascist, was a bit over the top.
But the nasty party has now become that very thing: the nightmare party.
Hell, Frost isn’t even elected. That’s the kind of democracy run out of England’s Westminster.
“Lord Frost who said Wales and Scotland not nations set for senior constitutional role in Liz Truss’ Arr53hole”There. Fixed it for you
No surprise there, then. You just wait and see what the tories have in store for the UK, never mind the devolved nations. Who here is aware that under new rules all the old shrivelled up tory prunes who have made new lives for themselves on the Algarve, now have no restrictions on voting in the UK, the westminster cabal driving the electoral commission to get people who haven’t lived in the UK for decades to sign up for voting while at the same time making it harder for EC to tackle election campaign fraud (which the tories are very… Read more »
Lord Frost also known as Lord Tosspot.
If we in Wales and Scotland ever intend going independent we need to ensure we get our pro-rata share of national treasures and money in the treasury before England starts stashing it away for themselves. Don’t forget that all these treasures and cash are safely and cunningly tucked away in the south east of England. The north of England need to take heed too!
I wrote the words in the bottom paragraph to do with the Spectator article. The same words apply here. However, we must remember that this man’s lifespan is very short when compared to that of Wales and Scotland.
The only humiliation that Frost fears would apply to England alone, not us for choosing our own path.
What an ignoramus. What a way to inflame passion and spur on insurrection. It truly is a supreme example of arroganceand ignorance that is pathetically crass. However, good for Plaid and SNP!….keep it up!
Welcome to the USS(R)UK
Lord Gormless: an unelected bureaucrat.
Time for the Welsh people to draw a line in the sand! On Saturday, October 1st, YesCymru/All Under One Banner will be holding a march for Welsh independence in Cardiff. Here’s your chance pobl Cymru, to prove to Frost and his colonial ilk that this nation will not meekly lie down and die! Come to Cardiff in your tens of thousands, be the resistance that our nation needs right now – let us all stand together and show that Wales demands justice and freedom!
Clyw clyw.
A lord taking a constitutional role , oh the irony of these Westminster idiots. They offer nothign for anyone I know, just misery and hate wrapped in a flag found on everything you eat and stands for nothing good.
Lord who? Never heard of him.
“Must” is a word from a forgotten culture. The Welsh people will decide what they “must” do or not do.