Debate over Welsh village name to be held
Liam Randall Local Democracy Reporter
A debate is set to take place over the Welsh form of a village’s name amid concerns over its English translation.
New Brighton, near Mold in Flintshire, is known locally in Welsh as Pentre Cythraul, but the place-name has never been formally recognised.
Residents launched a bid in 2019 to have it included on an official list of names published by the Welsh Language Commissioner.
Concerns were raised by some villagers during a consultation on the plans as Pentre Cythraul roughly translates as “The Devil’s Village” in English.
Debate
The village is believed to have originally been named Pentre Catherall after industrialist Josiah Catherall, who built the village’s first houses in the 19th Century.
However, backbench councillors in Flintshire will be asked this week to support commissioner Efa Gruffudd Jones’s suggestion for it to be known as Pentre Cythrel in future.
Claire Homard, Flintshire Council’s chief officer for education and youth, said in a report this was due to the negative connotations associated with Pentre Cythraul.
She said: “The commissioner has indicated support for the use of an official Welsh form of New Brighton, but prefers Pentre Cythrel, as the name is an oral development of ‘Catherall’ and reflects how the name is pronounced locally.
“Using ‘cythraul’ would be a further step away from the original colloquial name.
“Local residents who use the Welsh name Pentre Cythraul are supportive of the panel’s suggestion of Pentre Cythrel.
“The Welsh name Pentre Cythrel will also address the objections raised in the consultation and the negative association of Pentre Cythraul (Devil’s Village).”
Current status
Pentre Cythraul has been used locally as the Welsh form of New Brighton for many years and is included on driving licences issued by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA).
It also features on several signs in the village, including one attached to New Brighton Community Centre.
Ms Homard said the Local Land and Property Gazetteer (LLPG) would need to be updated to reflect any changes and notify bodies such as Ordnance Survey and Royal Mail.
She added: “Formally recognising a Welsh form of New Brighton will support the council’s Welsh language promotion strategy by raising the visibility of the language. It also ensures Welsh is treated equal to English.
“Adopting a Welsh name would not incur any additional costs as signage can be changed as and when it is renewed.”
Members of Flintshire’s corporate resources scrutiny committee will be asked to approve the new Welsh name for New Brighton at a meeting on Thursday (October 10, 2024).
It will then go to the council’s cabinet for a final decision, before the commissioner can be informed to include it on the official list of place-names.
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Beth am “Hofe mewn gwirionedd”
The saying ‘Cythraul o le’ in Welsh translates as ‘A monster of a place’ in English. I wonder if the village has a twin and where it might be and what it is called.
I wonder if the village has a twin and where it might be and what it is called.
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Devil’s Island? A hell of a place, they say …
This isn’t the only village in Flintshire with a debatably idiosyncratic name. When my other half and I first moved here in the north-east I was intrigued by the village named Lixwm – rendered, improbably, into Welsh as Licswm. Hard to fathom the derivation of that. So I did a bit of delving and came across the theory that the name had arisen as a consequence of an influx of miners from south Derbyshire who arrived in the area in the early 19th century because their employer was opening up new pits in the area. On arriving there, they took… Read more »
Nothing ‘”improbable” about the the Welsh translation being ‘Licswm’, though. ‘-cs’ is the standard equivalent of ‘-x’, e.g Wrecsam.
Fair comment – my post was just prompted by the fact that Licswm clearly isn’t authentically a Welsh name, as, for instance, ‘Ysceifiog’ unambiguously is.
Same, of course, with ‘Wrecsam’ which just baptizes an old English placename with a Welsh spelling!
Yes, Welsh has an interesting ability to borrow an English word or place name and to adapt it to Welsh orthography while keeping the same sound. Happens a lot.
Works both ways, if only to a small extent – as, speculatively but plausibly, with ‘cwm’ and ‘coombe’, and ‘craig’ and ‘crag’.
Usually geographical, where ancient associations seem to particularly persist. I grew up in north-west England, where there is a river called the Gowy and even a village still called ‘Bryn’.
What’s the betting that those opposed to the official use of the name Pentre Cythraul, whether they are residents or not, have no problem referring to Pontarfynach as Devil’s Bridge.