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An independent Welsh Labour party would be the end of Plaid Cymru says Dafydd Iwan

14 Dec 2021 2 minutes Read
Dafydd Iwan.

Former Plaid Cymru president Dafydd Iwan has said that his party would probably come to an end if Welsh Labour ever became independent from the party at Westminster.

In an interview with ITV Wales’ Sharp End, the ‘Yma o Hyd’ singer said that “the Labour party in Wales must be serious about becoming Welsh Labour”.

“At the moment, they are part of the British party and essentially taking their orders from London and following Keir Starmer or whoever leads.

“I think now they have enough strength and enough self-belief to become an independent Welsh Labour party.”

But he also warned that an independent Welsh Labour party could be the end of the road for Plaid Cymru.

“If they do that then the days of Plaid Cymru may be numbered but at least we could then see the road to independence opening before us.”

When asked by Rob Osborne whether he would join independent Welsh Labour, Dafydd Iwan answered: “Well… why not? But not at the moment.”

“They would have to do that first. But the process then of amalgamating Plaid Cymru and an independent Welsh Labour would be an interesting one and I would love to be part of that. But only as a bystander.”

Sharp End can be watched here.

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David
David
1 month ago

Then, what Wales needs is a centre right Independence party like Gwlad.

Gareth Wyn Jones
Gareth Wyn Jones
1 month ago
Reply to  David

It has one it is called, Gwlad! well maybe not that centre right …….

Barry Pandy
Barry Pandy
1 month ago

Why do we need a centre-right party? How about a left, centre-left, centre and green party? We don’t need anything to the right, except maybe for hurling horse manure at.

John Brooks
John Brooks
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Pandy

Interestingly the Green Party in Scotland is independent from the Green Party in England and Wales. But the independence supporting Welsh Greens are not independent from the Green Party in England. Indeed they refer to Wales as one of their Regional Parties in their constitution.

j humphrys
j humphrys
1 month ago
Reply to  John Brooks

……..baffling.

j humphrys
j humphrys
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Pandy

Centre-right parties almost always create better economies. Gwlad seem to
understand how money works, and would do better than Labour.
Problem for Gwlad is, they have brilliant members but a very low profile.
If Labour turn toward being an independence party, however, I would surely vote for them as a way of achieving it.
After that, I would probably go centre-right to make Indy an economic success, although I think Mark Drakeford is more capable then maybe he himself believed. He has probably been shocked into change of attitude by the nutcases currently “in charge” of us over in Westminster?

Last edited 1 month ago by j humphrys
Y Cymro
Y Cymro
1 month ago

I disagree with Dafydd Iwan. Welsh Labour are not interested in an independent Wales let alone wanting devolution parity with Scotland. And even if one day they became a separate party from London Labour are still Unionists at heart who would choose “Britain”(England) over Wales every time.

Dave
Dave
1 month ago
Reply to  Y Cymro

as a welsh labour member you are wrong about Unionist tendencies at grass roots level at least but you are correct when you say “Britain” (England) hence my point that we are all Welsh and are proud of the fact.

Cymro Cymraeg
Cymro Cymraeg
1 month ago

So long as parties campaign and serve, within a democratic context, I’m sure that any political party could exist………..however Dafydd probably envisages ‘Plaid Lafur Cymru’ – not so sure how the indigenous rural Welsh farmers and their communities would vote?

Leigh Richards
Leigh Richards
1 month ago

Would be very good to see an independent welsh labour party. It’s frankly astonishing that after two decades of devolution for Wales labour in Wales themselves are still a ‘regional’ branch of the uk labour party, and that decisions on matters like approving labour candidates in Wales is the preserve of labour in london. That said if labour in Wales became fully autonomous from the uk party but the party in Wales continued its support for the union why would supporters of welsh independence leave plaid to join it?

Last edited 1 month ago by Leigh Richards
j humphrys
j humphrys
1 month ago
Reply to  Leigh Richards

Yes, it’s not simply a matter of a new ice cream van, trust has to be earned.

Richard
Richard
1 month ago

Looking across Europe – one sees Centre and Centre Right plus Liberal parties leading the fight for self determination. Whether in Corsica, Catalyna or Belgium through to Gwlad y Basg it has been these parties leading the way. My fami,y have ILP traditions but their support for ‘ Home Rule ‘as Gwynfor Evans states in Aros Mae was soon snuffed out by the centralist ideology of Labour UK. Plaid is a wide church – with many of its supporters reflecting the radical, cooperative , non conformist roots that Gwynfor reflected on so well – i cannot see too many being… Read more »

j humphrys
j humphrys
1 month ago
Reply to  Richard

Gwynfor’s History ofWales is the go-to for me.

Richard
Richard
1 month ago
Reply to  j humphrys

I was lucky 🍀 enough to be able to make his memorial service in Aber. As a historian and admirer of his life – his take on our history was a refreshing real life experience that embarrassed us – as I should have done

Mab Meirion
Mab Meirion
1 month ago

Wales PLC…

Cai Wogan Jones
Cai Wogan Jones
1 month ago

I don’t entirely agree. Plaid reaches parts other parties cannot not reach. But I do think there is a lot of sense in a merger predicated on Welsh Labour detaching from Sir Keir’s party over the border.

Barry Pandy
Barry Pandy
1 month ago

This is true. For example, Plaid have far better green credentials than Labour (Welsh or otherwise).

hdavies15
hdavies15
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Pandy

Come off it. Plaid’s green credentials are all about talking green. Labour has the purse strings and hands out the moolah which is all the greenwash hunters are bothered about.

Grayham Jones
1 month ago

Plaid Cymru May be finished but the Free Wales Party won’t be we we
Never stop fighting for Wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 it’s time for a new wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 we in wales have got to stop being little Englanders and and be proud to be welsh start fighting for your children and grandchildren future in wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 kick all English party’s out of wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

Cwm Rhondda
Cwm Rhondda
1 month ago

Please don’t forget the Labour party’s rich history of corruption in the South Wales valleys. The saying ‘power corrupts’ is true of the Labour party in the valleys. Plaid Cymru have a different organisational culture and different policies. I don’t see an independent Welsh Labour party as the end of Plaid.

hdavies15
hdavies15
1 month ago
Reply to  Cwm Rhondda

Some might say that Plaid is capable of self destruction without any help from the Labour party, either in its Welsh or BritNat form.

Royston Jones
1 month ago

The local branch of UK Labour and Plaid Cymru have merged. Keeping separate names is done to fool those voters who haven’t yet realised the truth.

Last edited 1 month ago by Royston Jones
Barry Pandy
Barry Pandy
1 month ago
Reply to  Royston Jones

A bit delusional I think. I take it you’re a tory voter who doesn’t like the Lafur-Plaid agreement and who can’t understand why the Welsh people won’t do as they’re told and vote tory.

Wrexhamian
Wrexhamian
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Pandy

No, he’s an independence campaigner and definitely not a Tory voter.

j humphrys
j humphrys
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Pandy

Off track. You better read a bit about Royston. He’s one of the best!

Richard
Richard
1 month ago
Reply to  Royston Jones

A little fanciful
Royston but a grain of truth
though a very small one

hdavies15
hdavies15
1 month ago
Reply to  Royston Jones

They may not have formally merged but they are very evidently sleeping together ! Boyo down this thread suggest that you are a Tory ! Let’s be kind and ignore his ignorance of your recent history.

Barry Pandy
Barry Pandy
1 month ago
Reply to  hdavies15

Then why is he making the sort of comments about Labour and Plaid that tory voters tend to come out with i.e. the paranoid tories who think that Labour and Plaid are all part of some devilish plot to keep the tories out?

Labour and Plaid have not merged but (aside from Welsh independence) their politics are pretty close hence their willingness to work together.

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