Support our Nation today - please donate here
News

Cardiff councillor criticised after calling for suspension of Labour MP Rosie Duffield

05 Apr 2023 4 minute read
Labour MP Rosie Duffield. Photo UK Parliament/Jessica Taylor

Martin Shipton

A senior Welsh Labour councillor has come in for severe criticism after calling for the suspension of a Labour woman MP who has been the subject of death threats and vile personal abuse.

Cllr Jennifer Burke responded to a tweet from UK Labour promoting the International Transgender Day of Visibility with a tweet of her own stating: “OK, so suspend Rosie Duffield.”

Cllr Burke is a member of Cardiff council’s cabinet.

Ms Duffield is the Labour MP for Canterbury and has been outspoken in what she sees as the defence of women-only spaces in the context of campaigns for transgender rights.

She has also objected to a reluctance on the part of some trans activists to use the term “woman”.

She was accused of being “transphobic” after she liked a tweet suggesting that “individuals with a cervix” should be described as “women”.

Ms Duffield has said that the vitriol poured on her – which has included death threats on social media – has left her “completely terrified”.

She told The Times that she has in the past suffered intimidation at home and threats from Twitter trolls, but said: “This feels worse — maybe because it strikes at the heart of who you are as a woman, and because it’s base, pure misogyny.”

There is, she has claimed, a witch hunt underway, stating: “A word like ‘transphobe’ gets spread around without any actual evidence and the fire is lit.”

She has said she knows she will be attacked for speaking out, but has decided to do so because she fears that protections and rights won by previous generations of feminists are in danger of being undermined.

Important voice

Recently Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer defended Ms Duffield during an LBC radio interview, stating that she was “an important voice in the Parliamentary party”.

She won Canterbury in the 2017 general election, becoming the seat’s first ever Labour MP. She retained it in 2019.

A spokeswoman for the campaign group Merched Cymru (Women of Wales) said: “The personal attacks Rosie Duffield has faced for speaking out about the rights of women and girls are appalling. “It’s particularly shocking when they come from elected representatives within her own party.

“It is not transphobic to understand that women and girls face violence and discrimination because of our sex. It is not transphobic to defend the rights and protections our foremothers fought for over generations.

“Unfortunately, it seems there are far too many people in Welsh Labour who have let their personal belief in gender identity ideology cloud their judgement, to the detriment of any rational discussion of the clash between women’s rights and the demands of gender activists.”

Brave

Cardiff Labour councillor Sue Lent, a former deputy leader of the city’s council and a spokeswoman for the group Labour Women’s Declaration, said: “Rosie Duffield is a brave Labour MP who dares to speak up in defence of women’s sex-based rights under the Equality Act.

“Unfortunately, for this, she has been subjected to terrible threats and abuse.

“Such bullying behaviour deters others from speaking out.

“I have never known a situation like this where politicians are afraid to speak out on behalf of 50% of their constituents.

“It is very disappointing to see Cllr Burke, a senior female councillor, joining in with this bullying of another female Labour politician.

“Shame on her for joining in with the mob who constantly chant “no debate” and think it’s OK to intimidate and silence women.”

We pointed out to Cllr Burke that Ms Duffield had been subjected to horrendous abuse because of her defence of women-only spaces.

We asked her whether her tweet represented the view of Cardiff council’s cabinet, of which she is a member.

We also asked her whether she thought hers was an appropriate comment for a member of the cabinet to have made, especially in view of Sir Keir Starmer’s recent comments defending Ms Duffield.

Cllr Burke responded: “My tweet was in a personal capacity.”

We also asked council leader Huw Thomas whether Cllr Burke’s tweet represented the view of the cabinet and whether he thought it was an appropriate comment for a member of the cabinet to have made, especially in view of Sir Keir Starmer’s recent comments defending Ms Duffield.

Cllr Thomas did not respond.


Support our Nation today

For the price of a cup of coffee a month you can help us create an independent, not-for-profit, national news service for the people of Wales, by the people of Wales.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest
72 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Brenda McBurney
Brenda McBurney
10 months ago

Thank you Nation Cymru for some decent journalism on this topic. Women and girls legal rights must not be given away by Labour to appease the cult of gender ideology.

Lools
Lools
10 months ago

You’ve shown your hand here Karl. ‘Old’, ‘bitter’, very telling choice of words. And an oddity that you’re blaming women for incels too. We see your language, it reveals your attitude. Men should be fighting to make space for trans women in their facilities, sports and spaces and expanding their definition of male to include and welcome trans women. Women are happy to accommodate transmen.

KPA
KPA
10 months ago

Rosie Duffield is a hero for standing up for women and girls against the encroachment on female-only sports and spaces like refuges and hospital wards, not to mention girls’ school toilets. All women are asking for is safety and fairness. It doesn’t make us “phobic” about anyone. The bullying she’s suffered has been appalling, and Keir Starmer has totally failed to protect her or other Labour women who speak up, like Sue Lent. Nor will he speak up for women himself – he claimed just days ago that one in a thousand “women” have male anatomy, in other words he’s… Read more »

KPA
KPA
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

The only people’s rights being dismantled here are women’s, not men’s. We just want the right to have toilets, changing rooms, refuges, rape support services, hospital wards, prisons, lesbian clubs, etc without males in them. And that’s being taken away from us. Please don’t take the word “woman” away from us, either. Without a word for ourselves, how can we even talk about our rights? Woman = adult human female. It doesn’t include anyone born with male genitals. And by the way, about 95% of transwomen keep those, did you know? Many people have been misled on that; perhaps you’re… Read more »

Leigh Richards
Leigh Richards
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA
Lools
Lools
10 months ago

Totally inappropriate behaviour. Duffield has been bullied, harassed and treated terribly for nothing more than speaking the truth and putting her head on the block for standing up for women’s rights. Shame on Cllr Burke for putting in an axe blow. Duffield has courage and integrity.

Dean KB
Dean KB
10 months ago

Starmer is doing a good job dragging Labour back to the centre left from the far left that Corbyn left it, but people like Cllr Jennifer Burke don’t make his job any easier. Transgenderism is an issue that is natural Labour territory, but it needs to be kept in perspective. Voters care more about women’s rights, the economy, money, job, rents, etc, and that’s where Labour need to be banging the drum.

KPA
KPA
10 months ago
Reply to  Dean KB

Is transgenderism really natural Labour territory, though? Socialism is all about a class-based, structural analysis of oppression. Women are a sex class, who have historicallly suffered oppression – and who need special protection – because of their biology, not a fondness for spinny skirts and lipstick (which many of us don’t like anyway). Gender identity ideology has captured the Left by piggybacking on gay rights, but the two are unrelated. The rights gay people asked for – mostly it was marriage – didn’t affect anyone else. But what’s being demanded now by transgender activists is the eradication of women’s rights… Read more »

KPA
KPA
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

I don’t “disagree with trans rights”; I want trans people to have the same rights as everyone else. And, happily, they already do. What extra “rights” are being asked for? Just the right to be treated as the opposite sex, then, yeah? No one else has that either. For reasons of safety and fairness. No one is being denied access to sport. Trans people can enter the category of their sex, like everyone else. Or, as with new guidelines in some sports, they can enter the new “open” category that replaces the men’s. So you’re graciously granting women our own… Read more »

Karl
Karl
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

Socialism is about being social, so all rights of society should be a labour priority. Over the dog eat dog selfish attitide of other political ideology. Women’s rights are still a subject needing enhancement, telling lies about trans women doesn’t do that. It jumps into bed with vile people,who also have zero interest in women’s rights. After they squash trans rights, they will be after demonising women’s rights next.

Isabel Jones
Isabel Jones
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

LGB people here in the UK used to be second-class citizens. They could live together faithfully for decades but because they couldn’t legalise their relationship they were hit with higher taxes (they couldn’t offset for a spouse) and couldn’t pass their pensions on to the surviving partner. When one died, the survivor often had to sell their home to pay things like IHT. In many cases they weren’t recognised as next of kin. They could be refused service in pubs and clubs and hotels and B+Bs. They literally didn’t have the same rights as the rest of the population. When… Read more »

hdavies15
hdavies15
10 months ago
Reply to  Isabel Jones

Nasty story elsewhere on the internet today about a trans person, Fallon Fox, allowed to engage in women’s MMA who is said to have broken female opponents’ skulls ! No doubt the fact that much of his/her 47 years were spent as a man has something to do with that capacity for inflicting damage. And some among us think this is just fine and dandy! Mad bad world we live in.

George Thomas
George Thomas
10 months ago
Reply to  Dean KB

Regardless of trans discussion, do you really believe that about Starmer and Corbyn?? Far left basically doesn’t exist in the UK. At most, thousands, not hundreds of thousands, vote for outwardly communist or communist-light political parties. Corbyn therefore simply represented just more left than most we’ve had in the UK. Sometimes an old fashioned view on left-wing politics, sometimes a European view. Starmer is trying his best not to show his cards and be friend to all (with exception of the left) at the moment. It might be the best thing longer term, but CURRENTLY when he does speak now… Read more »

KPA
KPA
10 months ago
Reply to  George Thomas

Who knows what Starmer really believes? He’s sitting on the fence so hard he must have splinters. But when you examine his comments closely, there’s little there in support of women. He said this week that one in a thousand women have male genitalia – well, those aren’t women, so what he must mean is that he’s happy to open up women’s spaces to males. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want my teenager daughter changing at the pool next to someone with male genitals (and the bodily strength of a male too). Nor do I want her… Read more »

Kerry Davies
Kerry Davies
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

Be accurate, what he said was that 99.9% of women do not have a penis which is a figure of speech and several light years from meaning that the 0.1% do have male genitalia.
Look up “circular reasoning” which is the logical fallacy you are using.

Laura Morris
Laura Morris
10 months ago
Reply to  Kerry Davies

On the subject of circular reasoning, can you tell us what your definition of a woman is ?

I think your answer could be quote interesting.

Another Richard
Another Richard
10 months ago
Reply to  Kerry Davies

There’s no logical fallacy. It’s a matter of simple arithmetic that if 99.9% of women do not have a penis 0.1% do.
This is a good, robust article by Martin Shipton and I am very glad that Nation.Cymru has him on board. I haven’t subscribed yet but it is now looking much more likely.

CJPh
CJPh
10 months ago
Reply to  Kerry Davies

It is very good advice to suggest looking up circular reasoning. You may want to do so yourself. Dylswn mynnu addysg sy’n ffocysi ar athroniaeth i’n plant yma yng Nghymru – ma’ safon ein rhethreg o fewn y pwnc yma’n embaras llwyr.

Lools
Lools
10 months ago
Reply to  Kerry Davies

100% of women don’t have penises and 100% of what you say is tosh. I wouldn’t say 99.9% when I mean all, or none, or some arbitrary figure in between. I think you have misunderstood circular logic. What it *doesn’t* mean is the head of a political party makes a statement accompanied by a statistical percentage to one decimal place and expect his voters to infer something other than what he’s saying from that. I think you actually need to look it up! Clear language matters, accurate statistics matter, sex matters. Even if I took the 99.9% as a figure… Read more »

Isabel Jones
Isabel Jones
10 months ago
Reply to  Kerry Davies

No, he was acknowledging the fact that 0.2% of people identified themselves as transgender in the census. Let’s say half that number, 0.1%, are men who say they identify as women and want access women’s spaces normally closed to men.

That’s what his ‘99.9% of women don’t have penises’ comment is based on. He is accepting that 0.1% of women do. That 0.01% means that 40,000 to 50,000 ‘women’ in this country have penises. They’re the men in women’s loos and changing rooms and women’s hospital wards and even in women’s prisons.

KPA
KPA
10 months ago

“There needs to be more respect and empathy shown,” you say. Yes, absolutely. Some respect and empathy for women would be nice! I’ve followed this debate for a while, and the times I’ve seen aggressive, even threatening comments it’s always been towards women from the pro-gender ideology side, not the other way around. Rosie Duffield’s life has been threatened just for standing up for women – so too JK Rowling and other brave women. If you want to see the kind of vile abuse that women get just for asking to be allowed to DISCUSS these issues openly, google “terf… Read more »

George Thomas
George Thomas
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

“There needs to be more respect and empathy shown,” you say. Yes, absolutely. Some respect and empathy for women would be nice!  I agree with this comment. A huge amount is written about Rose Duffield these days. Some of this clearly oversteps the line and needs to be called out as extreme and unpleasant behaviour. At the same time, the voices Rosie Duffield is promoting, the policies Rose Duffield is campaigning for ranges from “raising concerns/protecting sex” to “transphobic with aim of dismaintling rights of minority”. She’s not at one end or the other of that scale all the time,… Read more »

Joanne Hughes.
Joanne Hughes.
10 months ago

With the greatest of respect you need to check your thinking and correct your mistake above.

Rosie does not hold transphobic views because men cannot become women. It is impossible.

Sex and gender are exactly the same. They are observed and then recorded at birth.

KPA
KPA
10 months ago

“These article always see lots of comments being made.” If you mean articles on the eradication of women’s rights (and even our words), then yeah, there are a lot of women in this country and we’re not happy about what’s happening. We have been shouted down and threatened (some have lost their jobs) for trying to talk about this; we’ve been abandoned by political parties we supported – especially Labour. We’re fed up and we’re pushing back. You’re dead wrong that it’s right or centre-right women who are the ones raising concerns on this. It’s women from all sides, but… Read more »

Lools
Lools
10 months ago

How easy must it be to be a man who can bet the farm at women’s expense. That word ‘unlikely’ carries a lot of weight there. You realise that trans women retain male pattern offending? And what do you mean IF there are ‘cis’ men? Men have literally become priests, school teachers, scout leaders etc. in order to gain access to victims. For one, burnout the cis rubbish. Men are men. There is no subset. Guessing you know exactly what a man is and what a woman is when choosing a sexual partner. You realise the lengths that some disgusting… Read more »

Lools
Lools
10 months ago

Honestly, the men on this thread! I wonder why you would argue so vehemently against the safety and dignity of women. Is it that you think that for a MAN to want to be a woman must be the most unimaginably terrible and pitiable thing in the world, like there can be no lowlier affliction, in which case they deserve more sympathy and privileges than anyone else? Can you just not handle seeing trans women in your spaces and want to just make it someone else’s (women’s) problem? Or is it that you just actively hate women? Why don’t you… Read more »

Llewz
Llewz
10 months ago
Reply to  Lools

Fair enough comment, but please realise that there are also men (myself included) who agree with you and upvote your comments.

Lools
Lools
10 months ago
Reply to  Llewz

Yes, I could have worded that better. I was referring to the men here that are desperate to give out rights and protections away, but appreciate decent men like you who are supporting us.

Iago Prydderch
Iago Prydderch
10 months ago

This proves that the trans debate is not divided by the left and right of politics as some people who comment on this platform want others to believe. Science and reason will triumph in the end over the irrational ideologues.

Eric Tangier
Eric Tangier
10 months ago

Great article. I cant understand why some people are still trying to cancel those whose with gender critical beliefs despite all the court cases and the fact that most people agree there are only 2 sexes, whilst supporting trans rights, just not at the expense of women. More please. Welsh Gov LGBQT plans are very concerning as they are ignoring the concerns emerging in Scotland and England. Why?

Joanne Williams
Joanne Williams
10 months ago
Reply to  Eric Tangier

Very concerning indeed.

But one thing is sure: I will note for any party or politician who expects me to believe that a man can become a woman on the basis of his feelings.

Mr Williams
Mr Williams
10 months ago

In schools now, we are being pressured into teaching children that ‘gender’ is a spectrum and they can choose where they are on the spectrum. (I can provide proof, Nation.Cymru – email me if you want this).

Anybody who objects is shot down in flames!

I see many very unhappy, confused children, mostly girls, who are becoming more and more depressed – and hating their own bodies – due to this culture. Stop this, Welsh Labour – it is harmful!

Last edited 10 months ago by Mr Williams
Isabel Jones
Isabel Jones
10 months ago
Reply to  Mr Williams

Gender is a social construct. It changes over time. Victorian boys once wore pink because it was perceived as a masculine colour. Now it’s thought of as feminine. Feminine, masculine, femininity, masculinity — those are gender-words. Many people regard gender as limiting and regressive. A boy who likes playing with dolls is still a boy: a girl who plays rugby is still a girl. Sex is binary. Male and Female. That’s it. Sex is determined at conception and after there there’s no changing it. No spectrum, just male and female. Google ‘Twitter Zach Elliott sex binary’ and you should find… Read more »

Rebecca Mayers
Rebecca Mayers
10 months ago
Reply to  Mr Williams

Its worrying isn’t it Mr. Williams? Ideas are being put into children’s heads that they need to think about what ‘gender’ they are. All this encouragement to be constantly soul searching and thinking about identity. There are far more fun things that teenagers could be doing with their time. Very few genderists seem to consider the social contagion element of this ideology. Its negatively affecting children. As to ‘affirming’ children without even consulting parents, what on earth happened to safeguarding? And teachers feel unable to speak out. I have friends in the teaching profession that feel stuck between a rock… Read more »

Rebecca Mayers
Rebecca Mayers
10 months ago
Reply to  Mr Williams

You’re conflating sex and gender here and confusing matters. There are as many genders as your imagination allows. Or if you mean the masculine and feminine gender stereotypes, then of course there are some men who are less typically ‘masculine’ and some women who are less stereotypically ‘feminine’ by societal expectations. Thank goodness we have moved beyond such regressive stereotypical rubbish, haven’t we? Sex, however, is binary. I’m glad you didn’t say that sex is ‘bimodal’, as that assertion is quite frankly offensive, so I hope that is not what you meant. Utilising people with disorders of development as some… Read more »

Isabel Jones
Isabel Jones
10 months ago

But we do have plenty of reason to be concerned about safety where transwomen are involved, Owain. Thanks to the census data and Ministry of Justice figures, we can now show that 1 in every 585 transgender women* in England and Wales are convicted sex offenders. That compares to 1 in every 2500-3000 men and 1 in every 243000 women. So we can say with some confidence that transwomen are around 5 times more likely than ‘ordinary’ men to commit a sexual offence. Which is why we don’t want them in our loos, our changing rooms and our gym showers,… Read more »

Kelly
Kelly
10 months ago

I think it would help the thread along quite a bit, as well as clarify the issues being discussed, if you can provide the definition of a woman. In other words, what is a woman?

Thanks in anticipation.

Leigh Richards
Leigh Richards
10 months ago
Reply to  Kelly

Do tell us yours? ((thanks in anticiptation).

Lools
Lools
10 months ago

Oh do pipe down with your playground slurs and ad hom attacks Leigh. Why don’t you try engaging with the points raised instead?

Leigh Richards
Leigh Richards
10 months ago
Reply to  Lools

Er i was replying to a comment left by a far right bigot – not you! They now seem to have deleted their vile comment. Probably left by one of them fake profile far right trolls that sadly frequents the comments section of this site on occasions

Catherine Roberts
Catherine Roberts
10 months ago
Reply to  Leigh Richards

But you still have not addressed the points at hand.

Answer the question.

What is a woman?

Leigh Richards
Leigh Richards
10 months ago

I beg your pardon! You appear to labouring under the delusion that youre the prosecuting counsel in a court of law – well youre not and this isnt!

CJPh
CJPh
10 months ago
Reply to  Leigh Richards

Obfuscation, it seems, is nine tenths of the law. It seems that you’re unable to do provide what should be a very simple answer. Maybe you should allow people who are better at philosophical reasoning and rhetoric make these cases? You seem to be undermining your own “cause”, Leigh.

CapM
CapM
10 months ago
Reply to  CJPh

“provide what should be a very simple answer. “
Simple answers don’t usually do justice to complicated questions.
Progress might possibly be made with the discussion of this issue if all participants were to agree that – it’s complicated.

CJPh
CJPh
10 months ago
Reply to  CapM

The issue may be very complex (although, I don’t think it needs to be), but the question is a very simple one that can be answered very simply. The answer, which in no way infringes on anyone’s person-hood, rights or dignity, is that a woman is an adult human female. A trans woman is a biological male who wishes to be perceived as a woman. I believe that we should grant that for trans women (and by extension, trans men) on an interpersonal level, to avoid treating people poorly on the basis of immutable characteristics and to allow maximal enfranchisement… Read more »

CapM
CapM
10 months ago
Reply to  CJPh

 “…the accompanying attention-seeking being the exact opposite of what they want.” I suppose one of the aspects of this issue is that some people don’t want to fly under the radar (and why should they) and it’s how they are affected by society’s current lack of acceptance or tolerance can cause them problems and worse. Nefarious activities – we probably agree that illegal is illegal regardless of who someone is or wishes to be. Whatever the issue there always seems to be those on the extreme and if it weren’t for the amplification the press and other media gives them… Read more »

CJPh
CJPh
10 months ago
Reply to  CapM

Once again, I don’t think we’re far apart on this except for matters of detail. First bit: My observation is, based on experience, that the very nature of dysphoria (and the various forms and degrees of transitioning that helps many) necessitates a desire for ‘blending in’, not a highlighting of difference. However, you’re also right – I don’t think that any person has to “fly under the radar”, including the majority of non-tans people who are at the vanguard of the “trans” movement. They’re entitled to their views, I am entitled to oppose them. Perhaps a firming up of terminology… Read more »

Nile Morris
Nile Morris
10 months ago
Reply to  CapM

Oh give over. Sex is not complicated. Gender, well you could construct weird and wonderful identities all day long that can be as complex as your imagination makes it, but sex is bog standard, two word answer. I really despair of people that pretend otherwise. Its disingenuous.

CapM
CapM
10 months ago
Reply to  Nile Morris

“Sex [I’m assuming you mean male or female] is not complicated.”
Depends what level of understanding is needed.
For those being introduced to biology then you’re correct. Just as those being introduced to physics are told that the acceleration due to gravity is ten meters per second squared.
When greater understanding is required things get more complicated/precise.

Leigh Richards
Leigh Richards
10 months ago
Reply to  CJPh

Lol 🤣…think youre undermining your own ’cause’ by taking up a long term residence on this site under a fake identity – despite being repeatedly challenged by me to comment under your real name. And please no phoney first name over familiarity….my friends call me by my first name – anonymous trolls who havent got the bottle to post under their real name are no friends of mine. While i’ll treat youre arrogant presumption to intellectual superiority with the contempt it certainly deserves 😉

Suffragette2
Suffragette2
10 months ago
Reply to  Leigh Richards

Lighten up mate: get some Nike running gear to run off the stress- sounds like it would suit you.

https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1643691302620413952

CJPh
CJPh
10 months ago
Reply to  Leigh Richards

No mention of intellectual superiority, clearly you have an emotional response here. I don’t know if you are a bright person, but philosophy doesn’t seem to be your strong suit. That’s fine, you can still have opinions. Plenty of doctors, physicists and engineers are awful at debate, don;t engage in philosophy or have an ability in moral reasoning. I’m sorry you feel that way, Leigh. I’m not sure how my anonymity matters, and demanding I post under my real name is a tad, as you say, over-familiar. Not sure on how you come to the conclusion that I’m trolling. Not… Read more »

Leigh Richards
Leigh Richards
10 months ago

Agree Owain. Extremely alarming to see the comment section of nation cymru turning into a transphobic cesspit. Thought id stumbled on to the daily mail page by mistake for a moment 😱 😢

Nile Morris
Nile Morris
10 months ago

Good to read sensible comments below this article, and a news outlet willing to stand up to bullying. Keep it up Nation.Cymru!

Isabel Jones
Isabel Jones
10 months ago

I’ve spent half the morning replying to others’ comments on here and have forgotten to say how much I appreciated Martin Shipton’s original article. It’s good to see these issues reported. Most of the media here in Wales seems to have been silent on this subject. It’s shameful that Cllr Burke has spoken in the way she did and I hope those she represents will remember this at election time. Worth noting that Rosie Duffield, whom so many in the Labour Party insult and condemn, is very strongly supported in her constituency and was recently reconfirmed unanimously as candidate. I’m… Read more »

Nile Morris
Nile Morris
10 months ago

Anything else you’d like to dictate to the women that they should be doing or thinking Owain? Thing is mate, you and I can shut the webpage and get on with our day. It’ll be women who are stuck with these laws. You’re showing men up here. Very easy to dismiss it as ‘culture wars’ when it won’t be you that it impacts. Or is that just it? You don’t want to do the hard work of looking out for these trans women in your spaces, or making sure it’s a safer place for them by challenging these toxic males.… Read more »

Nile Morris
Nile Morris
10 months ago
Reply to  Nile Morris

I’ve read your comment again and I think you might be one of those toxic males. You can’t really be that concerned with domestic violence whilst simultaneously arguing for male rapists in women’s prisons and toilets. And where do those victims of rape at the hands of their partners go to get help if all the rape crisis centres are open to men? I don’t think you’ve thought it all the way through bud.

Owain Morgan
Owain Morgan
10 months ago
Reply to  Nile Morris

1. You assumed my gender. 2. Your assertion that Trans women are Male Rapists has NO basis in fact. 3. I spend as little time as I can in MALE spaces as I’ve never been comfortable in them. 4. I’ve been thinking about this for more than 20 years. Maybe it’s you who hasn’t? 5. You accuse me of Toxic masculinity, having assumed my gender, but have you ever questioned your own masculinity? 6. I do the hard work of questioning my mentality and behaviour every day, surrounding myself with loved ones and friends who also do that, and question… Read more »

Daf
Daf
10 months ago

It is sickening that Rosie Duffield has been subjected to death threats for taking a measured stance on women’s rights. It is extraordinary, and obscene, that a woman in this century is harassed and threatened in this way. I’m not a member of the Labour Party, but have always voted Labour, in local and general elections. I thought they were the party that were, despite faults, best placed to build a more equal society. To see Duffield being targeted in this way, and apparently left unsupported by Labour leadership, is shocking. It is all very well for Welsh Labour leaders… Read more »

Emma Catherwood
Emma Catherwood
10 months ago
Reply to  Daf

Check this conversation out. We will be seeing a lot more confused men like the guy on the right in years to come in our own country:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1643450523235028995/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1643450523235028995&currentTweetUser=MattWalshBlog

Owain Morgan
Owain Morgan
10 months ago

Are people here uneducated or being deliberately obtuse? Firstly, let me pose a question, has anyone here ever read about the medical science of Intersex people? If you have please do reply to this comment, ideally talking about chromosomes and the puberty of Intersex persons. Secondly, I’m not seeing any mention of Trans men despite the fact many people want to attack those of us supporting the Trans community along gender lines. I guess Trans men aren’t a concern to anyone here, except cis gender men who feel that their masculinity is being questioned in some imaginary way. Thirdly, can… Read more »

KPA
KPA
10 months ago
Reply to  Owain Morgan

No one is saying that all (or even most) transwomen are rapists. The point is that they are male, and retain male patterns of criminality. Most men aren’t rapists either, but they’re excluded from female spaces because there’s no way for women to know which individuals are rapists and which aren’t. If someone offered you a bowl of sweets and said “don’t worry; only one of them has cyanide it it – the rest are all fine!” would you take a sweet? No. It’s the same thing. As for “intersex”… that’s got nothing to do with it. Trans-identifying people and… Read more »

CapM
CapM
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

“If someone offered you a bowl of sweets and said “don’t worry; only one of them has cyanide it it – the rest are all fine!” would you take a sweet?” I think this illustrates how degrees of risk are misunderstood by many people. To go along with your sweet bowl metaphor there would be a very large number of sweets in a big bowl. A very small number of cyanide sweets would have been placed there by men the woman picking a sweet knows. A smaller number would have been placed there by men the woman didn’t know. An… Read more »

KPA
KPA
10 months ago
Reply to  CapM

You’ve absolutely failed to understand the bowl of sweets metaphor. On the plus side, it seems you do recognise that individuals with male genitalia are the main problem for women. I’m guessing you’re unaware that upwards of 95% of “transwomen” retain their penises?

CapM
CapM
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

When compared to the number of men with penises the number of transwomen with penises is practically negligible.
But then I did say that many people do not understand degrees of risk.

KPA
KPA
10 months ago
Reply to  CapM

Stop with the “small percentage” nonsense, please. It only takes one male to turn a women-only space into a mixed-sex one. Just one male in a women’s prison makes that prison mixed-sex, exposing the hundreds of other women in there to the trauma of showering next to a penis and to the risk of rape. Just one male in a woman’s rape support group makes that group mixed-sex, and women will feel uncomfortable and self-exclude. As in Brighton, it can end up meaning there is NOWHERE for raped women to go for support. Just one boy in the girls’ changing… Read more »

CapM
CapM
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

You’ve dropped the argument based on risk and taken up an argument based on the (non-physical) consequences to women of someone with a penis being allowed in a women only group or space.

I think it’s alarmist and unrealistic to imagine that the examples you give would happen. Especially the one where you suggest that teachers would allow boys to change in girls’ changing rooms!

KPA
KPA
10 months ago
Reply to  CapM

Alarmist and unrealistic to imagine teachers would allow boys to change in the girls’ changing room? Not at all! It’s already happened. For instance, Oxfordshire council a few years ago issued “Trans Inclusion Toolkits” to all its schools telling them to follow this policy. That was later overturned after a 13-year-old girl toook them to court. But it’s still happening elsewhere. For instance here. And no, I’m not just talking about the “non-physical” consequences of males in what by law (the Equality Act) are supposed to be female-only single-sex spaces. Women in jail have been sexually assaulted by males, eg… Read more »

KPA
KPA
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

On my earlier point about trans-identified males (known as “trans women”) retaining male patterns of criminality – it’s worse than that. The census has now shown that actually they are FIVE TIMES AS LIKELY as other males to be in prison for a sexual offence. See: Sex Matters website. Stop gaslighting women by pretending that such males aren’t a risk.

CapM
CapM
10 months ago
Reply to  KPA

I’ve only looked at your first example, the Oxfordshire Council’s  “Trans Inclusion Toolkits” with regard to changing rooms.
Section 5.3 page 27.
It does say that after discussion with a trans person they might use a separate changing room or the girls changing room. But it doesn’t say or even imply that they should be allowed to use the girls changing room at the same time that the girls use it.
Assuming that teachers would interpret the guidance to allow biological male pupils to change with females is I think putting two and two together and making five.

Ella Wilson
Ella Wilson
10 months ago
Reply to  Owain Morgan

With the greatest of respect, can you stop using the phrase cis woman. There is no such thing. As a woman, I find it highly offensive.

You are attacking our language and safe spaces.

And meanwhile individuals like you are UNABLE to explain what a woman is.

Womanhood is not something for blokes
with mental health issues to appropriate.

Kindest regards.

Owain Morgan
Owain Morgan
10 months ago
Reply to  Ella Wilson

1. If you identify with your biological sex then you are a cis woman. Just as a man identifying with his biological sex is a cis man. 2. You’re attacking my language and Nation.Cymru used to be my safe space until it got infiltrated by TERFs and Transphobic Toxic males. 3. Not only is that statement highly offensive, it’s also factually innacurate. Transgendered persons don’t have mental health issues, they were born in the wrong body. 4. I suggest you read some medical journals, starting with the ones about Intersex persons and human chromosomes, other than XX and XY. You… Read more »

Our Supporters

All information provided to Nation.Cymru will be handled sensitively and within the boundaries of the Data Protection Act 2018.