Gareth Wyn Jones calls for reversal of Wales’ electric dog collar ban
Celebrity farmer Gareth Wyn Jones has called for Wals’ ban on electric dog collars to be scrapped.
In 2010, Wales became the first UK region to outlaw the use of electric collars, with Scotland following suit in 2018.
Some Welsh Conservatives have already been vocal in their opposition to the ban, with former Welsh Secretary David Jones saying that new data made clear that the “ban has failed and, paradoxically, is leading to many animal deaths”.
In comments made to the Telegraph, Gareth Wyn Jones supported that viewpoint, saying that “you have to be cruel to be kind” and that a collar stopping a dog from chasing livestock was better than having to put a dog down after it had killed a sheep.
His comments come after the NFU released data showing that Welsh farmers suffered £306,068 in losses from dog attacks last year compared with £68,408 in Scotland.
The Welsh Government however have said that they have no plans to review the position, saying that e-collars “cause pain”.
Gareth Wyn Jones however said: “The Government is banning things because they believe that it is cruel, but what is crueller? For a sheep to be ripped to pieces or for a dog to have a little electric shock which is less than they get from a fence?
“These collars are a deterrent. You don’t have to be clever to understand that proper training can save lives – sheep lives, dogs’ lives, or even people’s lives as owners get into serious problems and we have seen people trampled when they have a dog that is chasing livestock.”
He added: “The Government has to go back and look at the evidence, they have to listen to the people on the ground.”
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I think a fine for dog owners that refuse to train their animals properly and keep them under control would be more appropriate than blatant animal cruelty…..
There are already such fines – they are a miserable failure. And if you think that electronic collars are cruel then you clearly do not know how they are used or how dogs respond to them.
Credible supporting data please. Failing that let me put a collar on you for an hour and prove to me it’s harmless. I’d need to be diligent and test it on various powers. An hour should be enough to convince me.
Dogs don’t understand fines though, so if an owner has dropped a lead near sheep and the dog has proved it doesn’t want rewards as much as it wants to chase sheep, the idea of the impending fine isn’t going to stop the dog causing carnage. Anyone that says it’s possible to rely on a fully reliable recall for a highly predatory dog that finds itself with the opportunity to chase sheep, without using some form of pressure, is sadly very naive and should work with more dogs before they claim they have the answers. You can have dogs all… Read more »
Try on one of those collars for yourself Gareth. My sister is a vet and she often treated dogs abused with third degree burns on their necks due to morons abusing the collar. What next? Call for the reintroduction of Badger baiting to eradicate TB? 🙄
It is impossible for an electronic collar to burn a dog’s neck – they simply do not put out enough energy to do so.
E- Collars don’t give burns. That’s simply not true.
Make e-collars only available from certified instructors to ensure safe and appropriate usage. They work and they keep livestock and dogs safe and allow dogs freedom.
Any certified instructor who uses shock collars should be struck off and banned from owning animals
Electrocution collars are never appropriate. Any “instructor” who is too stupid to realise that electrocuting a dog causes it lasting stress anxiety and mental damage should be prevented from “instructing” anyone and should further be banned from even LOOKING at animals. Only a complete moron cannot see that deliberately inflicting pain on any sentient creature does not make it calm and well behaved. If you think this is the case, I propose an experiment where a sample set of volunteers (from the electrocution collar = good rabble) get to experience that style of training themselves. Hey, if they use it… Read more »
Why do you refer to an electronic collar as an ‘electrocution’ collar? My mobile phone is electronic and sends out a vibration just like a remote collar but does it ‘electrocute’ me? What is your experience of a modern electronic collar? None, I’d suggest, because if you are still in the Dark Ages and think that any dog is being electrocuted with a quality remote collar, you are so way out of your depth here, so deluded that your emotive imagination is making you look rather silly to say the least. Hold a collar, put it on your own neck,… Read more »
Oh and distance communication? Have you not heard of whistles? Hand signals? If you have properly trained your dog they will always have eyes on you even at distance. But you have NEVER properly trained a dog. You have simply tortured them. Thank you for the invitation for me to try out an electrocution collar claiming they don’t hurt. SO WHAT IS THE DETERRENT TO A DOG THEN? You merely lie to defend the indefensible. Like all sociopaths. But tell you what. You can put an “e-collar” on and let me put these “gentle tickles” through your neck. I can… Read more »
Tell you what, watch this, you blithering idiot. https://youtu.be/QMMPFwnHM_8
I’ll even ignore the fact that you are actually Peter using a different screen name. So what do you think? Put a collar on and let me shock you?
This is an outright lie. High quality remote collars such as those made by Dogtra, Garmin and E-Collar Technologies are physically INCAPABLE of causing burns to the skin. She is mistaken about the causes of sores on a dog’s neck, which can be pressure sores known as ‘hot spots’ and they can be caused by an ordinary flat collar. Please don’t spread such dangerous misinformation. It is categorically IMPOSSIBLE for a muscle stimulation current to cause a third degree or any other burn, if it was possible then TENS machines would also be dangerous as they use the SAME technology.… Read more »
So the Veteinarian is wrong about shock collars and you are right? Seems unlikely. Messes Dunning and Kruger would be spoiled for choice with you crown of organised page invaders
Look up the video entitled ‘Mini Educator demo – no shocks!’ On YouTube – and dogs almost always only wear one receiver so they only feel that on one spot. How can you honestly feel that’s so bad that it’s better to risk a dog spotting a sheep behind a rock on the moors and breaking into chase? If you seriously think it’s better to let the sheep be ripped to pieces then your moral compass needs calibrating. I have been surprised by literally turning a corner and finding sheep behind a 3’ fence in a meadow that’s not had… Read more »
YouTube videos are not evidence 🙄
Nor is unsubstantiated second hand, incredible testimony about what you say your sister is and what she has supposedly done.
That sounds “fanciful” (to be polite).
But of course we a know thst farmers send their animals to be cruelly slaughtered.
However I do totally agree that all dog ownrrs have a responsibility to keep their dogs controlled at all times.
Maybe we need to bring back dog licensing and even vet people before they can own a dog.
No problem with that at all. This protects the dogs too. There are no terrible dogs. Just terrible owners. Terrible owners support the use of electrocution-collars.
Tories like a bit of cruelty don’t they? Any time they want a bolt of electricity through their necks I will happily flip the switch. After all, in their own words “you have to be cruel to be kind”!
A water mister has every bit the deterrent effect with dogs and even that is unnecessary.
This so called “celebrity” farmer should try training his dogs instead of torturing them. I hope he is an arable farmer, because I fear he would otherwise be kicking cows in the udders and pushing sheep down the mountain “for their own good”.
“A water mister has every bit the deterrent effect with dogs” Just how, pray tell, do you propose to mist a dog with water when it is chasing a sheep ?
Ah reduction ad absurdum fallacy. Behavioural reinforcement takes place to prevent incidents.
Sorry if my humanity is getting in the way of your desire to torment animals.
Only it does not prevent livestock worrying.
It is clearly not only in the physical that you resemble Jacob Rees-Mogg
HaHa. Now we know you are commenting out of ignorance. This is not about gareth Wyn Jones’ dogs, and he does farm both sheep and cattle. He is also only one of many welsh farmers who want the ban reviewed even if they do not use e-collars to train their own dogs (which would be illegal in Wales for over a decade).
Electronic collars are not banned in Scotland (or England). Which is probably why those two countries suffer fewer dog attacks on livestock.
As a data scientist / statistician I would be very pleased to see the data sources which back up your claims. Credible data sources mind you. It doesn’t have to be ONS but somebody’s Facebook claims will not suffice.
Find the police survey
and read the article that you are commenting on properly. It tells you that the NFU have reported it.
.
Still waiting on that evidence Petey. Aggressive downvoting and multi posting is fun and all, but let’s see the evidence of your claims.
You’re a rude piece of work, aren’t you? I hope Peter treats you with the contempt you deserve and leaves you to fester in frustrated silence when nobody engages with you because you’re clearly a troll and an arrogant and very poorly informed one at that.
Hi Peter, when people come at us rudely, I respond rudely, whether he then protests using another screen name or whether one of his other coordinated page invaders does. So I presumes that YOU HAVE NO CREDIBLE DATA TO SUPPORT YOUR LIES THEN? Oh no! Some animal torturers might not talk to me about the lies they came here to spread. Animals should be protected from the likes of you. Whoever you are. Get back to your Countryside Alliance Dog Dachau and leave us in peace as you dream of ripping foxes to pieces with a pack you can’t control… Read more »
You are deranged, and I think you’d benefit from a little more fibre in your diet, sweetheart.
So hateful. So childish. Grow up Peter 🙄
Amy is not Peter – just another of your lying fantasies.
I suppose the proverbial stopped clock has to tell the right time sooner or later. I have zero time for G.W-J, but on this issue he is correct. There is not a shred to evidence to support the hypothesis that responsible e-collar use has any lasting negative effect on dogs. They certainly don’t cause any kind of burn, much less third-degree burns claimed in the nonsense post below.
Apart from all the credible evidence that torturing sentient creatures causes them long lasting mental stress.
So no burns eh? We don’t need to worry about scars so long as they are not visible? Tell that to the hundreds of soldiers who committed suicide after returning from the oil wars with PTSD.
Look at the obvious insanity of zoo animals kept in tiny compounds. Watch ANY of a million dog rescue videos on YouTube.
You are either defending the indefensible or choosing not to understand that deliberately inflicting pain is not an acceptable means of training
The data you seek is in the article above. Your replies to everyone else on this article show you have zero experience of e-collar use and therefore you really have zero business commenting.
Anecdotes from one stupid farmer is not data. I can’t believe I have to explain this.
No. I have no experience torturing sentient creatures. I have no experience committing genocide either but I know the Holocaust and the ongoing ethnic cleaning of Palestine is a bad thing.
What’s your point?
My point, if you’d actually read the relevant piece from the article, is that a country with a ban on e-collars seems to have a much bigger problem with livestock worrying than countries with no such ban. “…£306,068 in losses from dog attacks last year compared with £68,408 in Scotland.”
“I can’t believe I have to explain this” indeed.
I did not ask for anecdotes with numbers provided by a biased farmer. I asked for data. So you don’t have any then?
Let me explain BASIC data requirements to you. For your data to be credible you need context to determine if the data is valid. So that you are not trying to compare apples with wheelchairs. How many sheep farms are there in Scotland? What is their geographic spread, what are the dog walking patterns like (EG which farms do they walk on?)? Are there clusters of attacks around particular farms? How well tended are the boundaries of those farms? Are public rights of way properly maintained? Are public rights of way deliberately blocked? Have insurance companies verified the value of… Read more »
The data provided isn’t anecdotes, it’s from the police forces’ rural crime teams. You need to stop yelling and start listening for a minute because you’re ranting about wanting data and it’s being provided. If you want more data they are there for the reading, you simply need to stop ✋ with the drunken ranting and look. Or aren’t you capable of doing your own research?
So hateful. So childish 🙄
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
Yes you are clearly childish. People have been very patient with you. Too patient. You keep calling people moron, whilst displaying your own ignorance. Where is the evidence for all your assertions ( burns, torture, inflicting pain …) Have you looked at the ongoing survey results on my earlier link? Those surveys, the NFU and police reports, the videos people have provided links for are all evidence against your statements but you keep making unsubstantiated assertions with NO evidence. I hope no-one else affords you any more attention.
Anyone who wants to know if e-collars are effective and if they harm dogs when used for training should ignore Llinos and read and understand this Ongoing e-collar survey results – ARDO – The Association of Responsible Dog Owners UK (joinardo.com)
Some evidence about e-collars – includes a letter from Vets sent to the Times Evidence – ARDO – The Association of Responsible Dog Owners UK (joinardo.com)
What’s this ‘first UK region’ bit!?
E collars are not cruel . So it’s perfectly ok for a farmer to shoot your dog in the head ? But not ok for you to use an E collar to stop your dog chasing & killing sheep ! Absolutely mind boggling .
Shock collars are brutal. Even if you call them e-collars. A lot of new posters seem to have suddenly appeared to defend torturing dogs.
It’s almost like it’s been organised in advance.
Where is your proof? Ongoing e-collar survey results – ARDO – The Association of Responsible Dog Owners UK (joinardo.com)
Please tell me if I’m missing something here. I have never taken my dog walking in a place where there are sheep and cattle because I believe it to be irresponsible and stupid. It seems a dog has to be subjected to pain and cruelty as a direct result of their owners’ self bestowed right through bloody minded arrogance to go ANYWHERE they choose without exception. If you need to punish a dog for YOUR stupidity, you shouldn’t own one.
Good for you – are you suggesting that rural dog owners load the dog into the car and drive it to the nearest patch of securely fenced tarmac for its daily walkies ?
So what’s your view on sheep farmers who do not maintain their fences? Where I grew up there were always sheep wandering through the village because the trigger happy dog murdering farmer was too right to keep his walls and fences in good order.
Should we have all electrocuted our dogs because of his idleness?
Just downvotes from the electrocution collar page invaders?
No response as regards lazy farmers who offload responsibility for their animals to others?
Yes “Keep dogs on leads”, but that is simply not enough. It has been trotted out for over 50 years yet the attacks continue to rise. By relying purely on restraints you are holding back an opportunistic predator that will take any and every opportunity to chase and attack. Restraining a liability out of necessity is worlds apart from putting a lead on a well trained dog out of courtesy and responsibility. How ANYONE can claim to have animal welfare at heart and yet reject this proven, proactive and preventative measure to train a dog to want nothing whatsoever to… Read more »
Awww the page invaders upvote the vile shocking pictures of murdered dogs next to savages sheep (childish 6th form tactics explicitly against the rules of the site) but downvote the post that challenges the revolting act.
The Countryside Alliance really needs banning as a terrorist organisation .
Are the farmers trained marksmen? Can we survey dogs killed outright, or injured and SUFFERING trying now to go home? I have witnessed this. His front leg was shot almost off. He made it home 2 miles away. Not my dog, I knew him. Owner too distraught. I stayed with him until the vet came, held him whilst he was put down. NOT a dig at farmers, how must THEY feel. ALL preventable by the ecollar.
No farmers are not trained marksmen by and large. Although it seems that some of them enjoy causing suffering to animals.
But bless you for staying with that scared mutilated dog at the end. I hope the scummy farmer was prosecuted for animal cruelty.
I am bemused at how you can still feel sympathy for murderous farmers though and I do not understand how you conclude that electrocution of dogs is a “good thing” because it prevents murder by trigger happy farmers?
What a t**t, Who is electrocuting dogs? Check your dictionary before replying. How can the tiny battery in an e-collar possibly provide power to “electrocute”. Resorting to inaccurate emotional language does not really help your case.
I was anti tool for dogs for years – I was uneducated about them and just jumped on the band wagon of haters just by reading social media posts. How ignorant I was . Since having 2 working line GSDs, I educated myself on all tools, and just recently purchased a double e collar. The reason being, that the world around me and my well trained dogs, did not follow the simple basic manners as us. 2 weeks in, one of my dogs was almost run over by a child on a quad bike, on a virtually empty playing field,… Read more »
No you weren’t. Had you posted here before we might believe you. But the tactic of “I was stopped but then I realised was right all along” is used by every bunch of regressive yahoos on the internet to try and claim credibility for their revolting beliefs.
NOBODY BELIEVES YOU APART FROM YOUR FELLOW PAGE INVADERS.
It is a common story for people to be converted to support of use of e-collars through personal experience and very believable unlike your bile.
I have a northern breed. I spent a year under the guidance of FF/+ only trainers. He knew all his basic commands. But if he saw something more interesting than his high-value treat, he would completely ignore me. A clicker and boiled chicken was not going to recall him. I then invested more time and money with a balanced trainer and introduced an ecollar. As a result, I have a dog that CHOOSES to ignore livestock and will recall regardless of the distraction. And if I know livestock are present, I will absolutely put him on lead as a matter… Read more »
Utter piffle. If you can’t stop your dog from attacking sheep without electrocuting them you have no business owning a dog. There is an optimum point to pull a boisterous dog to heel. This is about halfway between you and his prey. If you have a smart breed, like a GSD a poodle or a border collie, it is not difficult to train them to behave in the slightest. PROPER training is always better than electrocution. If you use torture to train your canine, you are not training your canine. You are simply instilling fear. Anyone with the slightest knowledge… Read more »
Typical cruel farmer. Disgrace
Does he honestly think people who are irresponsible enough to let their dogs worry sheep would use one of these cruel devices?
He’s just an arrogant Tory farmer blaming everyone else because he doesn’t maintain his fences. Probably wants to shoot foxes, gas badgers, rip rats apart, poison magpies, macerate chicks, crucify voles and burn cats alive too. Typical Countryside Alliance type who thinks he’s lord of the manor.
Isn’t this the truth let’s not shoot a dog for chasing sheep or other live stock instead give the dog a reason not to chase its that simple but people would rather see animals suffering and watch what could easily be there own loved pet shot to death because they refused to except that a device that is capable of coursing a moment of discomfort to stop the dog is more humane than it getting shot after it’s already caused death and suffering to other animals 🤔
OR, now here’s a wild thought, instead of making them targets for trigger happy bloodthirsty Countryside Alliance type farmers AND instead of using torture devices, just train the dogs in a humane way. I’ve walked my dogs all over the countryside and they have never chased a sheep. I never electrocuted any of them to achieve this. But in that time, a farmer once levelled a shotgun at my dogs even though there were not even any sheep around (they had wandered off through the endless holes in his walls and fences) and we were on a public right of… Read more »
There are many rural parts of the UK where sheep roam freely on hillsides, dales, moors, and many owners of dogs who suddenly find an opportunity to chase sheep for the first time find they have fallen foul of the irresponsible subliminal message given out by the very bodies that should care about animal welfare, eh The Blue Cross, RSPCA, and others. That message is, you must only EVER reward your dog during training. No guidance that involves pressure is allowed and god forbid you correct a dog physically – so if you adopt a dog who has, of course,… Read more »
So now the PDSA, the RSPCA, Vetetinarians, the law are all wrong and the Pro-Cruel bloodsports alliance are correct? Thank you for your very long, very boring rant. It reveals what a vicious person you are. You have taken your massive dump on our pages. I doubt you will bag it and bin it, so please, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Or do. I don’t care.
My border collie didn’t need ANY of the brutality in her training that you arrogantly demand. The urge to herd was strong in her and yet she NEVER chased a sheep in her life. She came from working stock on a farm run by a decent farmer. He emphasised the need for consistent behavioural reinforcement and trust in her. Which I followed. The bit you ignorantly left out is trust. If you trust your dog and give it clear and consistent instruction, it will trust you back and will immediately follow commands. It knows with absolute certainty what is needed… Read more »
So Countryside Alliance, how do you feel that your page invasion is going so far? Most of the regulars are just ignoring you, and so far all you have accomplished is insulting dog owners with witless assertions, posting revolting photographs of dogs you have murdered and downvoting me for pushing back and asking for actual data instead of one context-free pair of numbers, which do not prove what you want them to prove. Correlation is not causation. And you don’t seem to understand even basic GCSE level data science. Translated: You have no evidence. You merely invent a simple, brutal… Read more »
Looking at the -2 Llinos, you seem to have their answer. I’m not sure you have made any friends in the animal cruelty community
I’m not pro bloodsports. I’m not pro badger culling. It’s precisely because I care about wildlife that my dogs have needed more than the ‘trust’ you speak of – you’ve had one whole border collie and you think you know how to train all dogs of all breeds with all drives in all situations? You’re just a rabid maniac ranting and vomiting your bile about something you have precisely sweet FA experience of, and it shows. It’s laughable that you call a remote collar an electrocution collar. I bet you eat meat. From animals that have been kept in fields… Read more »
Wow you are truly vile aren’t you? Your snarling hatred oozes out of every word. I had one BC. I have had several other dogs. We trained each one without torture. Sorry to disappoint you. You’re also wrong in you assumptions about my diet. Vegetarian here. But spit your lies, ire, hatred and slanders all you like. The regulars clearly do t care about your page invasion and I am now bored about it too. You and your single interest dog torturing ilk are now left just ranting to yourselves on a story nobody else cares about. If you want… Read more »
Even I find ecollars revolting and I’m human detritus
In this article it says remote collars are banned in Scotland – they are not.
I strongly disagree with a reintroduction of shock collars if that were to happen. It’s not the ban that’s failed to stop attacks on livestock, they happened even when the collars were legal. The main, and in my opinion, only contributing factor to attacks on livestock is an increase in irresponsible dog ownership. The emphasis needs to be placed on increasing the need further for responsible dog ownership, not reintroducing shock collars which many dogs won’t listen too if they are in chase mode. The more responsible a dog owner is, the better trained a dog is and also, they… Read more »
Yes attacks happened before the ban, but the issue is the disproportionate increase in attacks in Wales since the ban compared to other parts of UK. Most users of e-collars or people who get a trainer to work with their dog using an e-collar to develop a reliable recall and obedience and automatic stock avoidance are doing exactly what you suggest, i.e. responsibly and humanely training their dog so that it does not get into that position of potentially being shot. Once trained with an e-collar it does not need to be constantly worn by the dog so it is… Read more »
Are you lot STILL banging on? At this point no regulars are looking at this but me and I’m just laughing at your rage