Gwynedd vote against Prince of Wales title ‘childish’ says Conservative Senedd member
A Conservative Senedd Member has criticised Gwynedd Council as “childish” for backing a campaign to abolish the Prince of Wales, and ban any future investiture from the country.
Councillors at Gwynedd voted by 46 votes to four to declare their opposition to the continuation of the title of ‘Prince of Wales’, and against holding another investiture in Wales. Four councillors abstained.
But Conservative Senedd Member Sam Rowlands said that the council had “better things to focus on”.
“It’s disappointing that Gwynedd Council are spending time backing ‘out of touch’ campaigns such as this, rather than focusing on tackling the real issues that face local Council taxpayers,” he said.
He added that he was “genuinely surprised” to see reference in councillors’ comments to the fact that the Prince of Wales was English.
“I would have hoped that Gwynedd Council would have reached out to the new Prince of Wales and encouraged him to act as an ambassador for Welsh culture, rather than making childish comments that can only sow division in public life.”
The vote by Gwynedd Council came after a petition against continuing with the Prince of Wales title attracted more than 37,000 signatures.
The motion was submitted by Blaenau Ffestiniog Councillor for Bowydd a Rhiw, Elfed Wyn ap Elwyn.
He said before the vote that he strongly believed that the title Prince of Wales continues the historical symbol of dominance held over Wales by the Royal Family of another country.
“Wales today is a modern, democratic country, with a Senedd making progress, giving the people of Wales a voice and a platform to drive change and develop as a nation,” he said.
“This archaic oppressive tradition is a blight on our nation and has been for centuries. It gives the impression that the people of Wales are owned by the system, rather than being free citizens living in our own country.
“It is holding us back from stepping out independently and making our own way in the world. In my view, this is the time for the people of Wales to be given the opportunity to make our voice heard and abolish this insulting title passed on from gentry as a continued oppressive symbol on our land and our people.
“It makes no sense, in my view that so much public money is used to sustain the Royal family, including the Prince of Wales role, given the cost of living crisis that our people are suffering up and down the country.”
Mae Cyngor Gwynedd wedi cefnogi cynnig i ddileu teitl Tywysog Cymru,
Wrth gyhoeddi’r cynnig i’r cyngor, dywedodd y Cynghorydd Elfed Wyn ap Elwyn fod teitl Tywysog Cymru “wedi bod yn friw ar ein cenedl ers canrifoedd.” pic.twitter.com/z6bavtCnso
— Newyddion S4C (@NewyddionS4C) October 6, 2022
The vote happened in the Gwynedd Council building just across the street from Caernarfon Castle where the investiture took place.
The Royal Family have already hinted that a new investiture would be a low-key affair, and sources briefed the Telegraph that the ceremony could happen at Llandaf Cathedral in Cardiff rather than in Caernarfon as was previously the case.
On a visit to Wales last week, Prince William himself is reported to have said that there were no current plans for an investiture.
The Royal title was originally given to Edward II of Caernarfon, son of Edward I who conquered Wales, as a means of confirming that the ‘Tywysog Cymru’ title previously held by native princes of Wales was subservient to that of the King of England.
Since then it has been held by 21 different heirs to the throne, although seven of them never became king.
There have previously been long periods of history, such as between 1553 with the accession of Edward Tudor and the passing of the title to Henry Frederick Stuart 63 years later, when the title did not exist at all.
Cllr Wyn ap Elwyn said he believed that the investiture of 1969 divided the nation, created ill-feeling and irreparable damage within communities.
Elfed Wyn ap Elwyn said: “My Cymru is one where I hope my baby twin boys are born to a fair and equal Wales, where no one places upon us a social class, symbolism or stature that affects our proud Welsh entity. The people of Wales should be free to make our own choices and be free of any symbolic shackle placed upon us.
“In my view, it would be a complete and utter sin to entertain the idea of a ceremonial pageantry be held anywhere in Wales. It would be an insult to Wales and its people to hold an Investiture ceremony on Welsh soil.
“The days of Wales titled ‘a little principality’ was abolished in the sixteenth century’s Laws in Wales Act. It is high time the so-called honourary title, Prince of Wales, was also abolished to the history books.”
Other Councillors at the meeting also voices support for the move.
Cllr Rhys Tudor said: “I echo what has been said already here, a principality and a structure of inequality is not in line with my values. It is an ancient tradition.”
Cllr Gareth Jones said: “I said then, this must be the final investiture in our lifetime, but here we are and the nightmare is on us again.
“I am in support, I am a nationalist and agree Gwynedd Council should support the removal of the title of Prince of Wales.
“I am not a supporter of the monarchy but I do respect views of others, so let’s ask people with a consultation, let’s ask the people of Wales.”
Cllr Jina Gwyrfai said: “I think we must convey a clear message that the people of Wales have a choice. It is nothing short of a dictatorship. We are on our way to independence.”
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Well he would wouldn’t he? No understanding of Welsh history, Typical Tory groveler!
It is of course the other way round. It is monarchy, princes, princesses and palaces that infantilises. The Windsor enterprise is an elaborate and well-honed personality cult, nurtured by its cohorts of lackeys and media allies.
Is it as infantile as pretending that King CharlieBoi and his family are chosen by divine provenance to have a special gold hat and loads of money and castles and wealth and be free from the consequences of law and justice? …
What did the Monarchy ever do for Wales?
Very twisted he criticises the council for not spending their time better, yet the tory party in Wales and in the rest of the UK regularly waste time entertaining the royal family and all the ceremonial pomp instead of focusing on more important issues.
I’m sure they’d frame it as “culture and tradition” but really it means distraction from how much harder we make life for ordinary people.
I see it as a small victory that they’ve opted not to foist the full-on InvestFest on us. It’s an admission that they know it won’t be taken lying down.
He talks about ” division in public life” when refering to this subject, but ignores the real causes of division, such as tax cuts for the rich, and benefit cuts for the poor. Where were your comments when the mini budget came out, silent and invisible you were, irrelevant you are.
Have you heard that the princess of Wales is only supporting the English ladies team in the rugby world cup. Not Wales and the prince of Wales is supporting England when they play Wales in the football world cup it’s that taking the p**s of the Welsh people and our nation what’s next
He is head of the English FA still. it is a an absolute joke. Typical Imperialism arrogance.
Anyone childish is MS Sam Rowlands and his Welsh Conservatives not Gwynedd .councilors. They have a backbone unlike our sychophantic Unionist lapdogs For some reason the Welsh Tories are happy to see an English Prince & Princess foisted on Wales without consultation, and are fine that they openly support England in football & rugby over the country they allegedly serve moronic? The Welsh Conservatives are treacherous little Englanders and I wish they’d shut up and go away! 😡
I don’t actually think Sam Rowlands has any issue with Gwynedd Council talking about an investiture for the new Prince of Wales. Does anyone seriously think that Sam would be criticising the Councillors if they had instead favourably discussed plans to hold an investure in Caernarvon?
What could be more childish than passing down an insult through every generation for over 600 years perpetuating petty hatred along the way? When will the Tories accept that we do not want them nor the childish hate sniping by their childish, nasty, petty, pathetic client journalists? Another 600 years and beyond? The Empire has never learned from its’ demise which will continue until completion when all its’ colonies have chosen freedom from its’ grip.
… its demise and its colonies
Sam Rowlands and his mate Buckland are royal arse lickers and will do anything for an English knighthood. Hang your heads in shame. If Wales and England went to war against each other these people would fight with England. Their ancestors would disown them.
“An ambassador for Welsh culture”. What, like his dad was?
So by finally refusing this POW we are acting childish? We’re being petulant, a naughty child, with no right to – say F.U. ! Well sorry chaps, the time has come and now we want more councils to do the same thing.
The childish ones are the ones who bestow silly and meaningless titles on each other. Oh, by the way, I am the Prince of England.
And I’m the 8th Earl of Merioneth…
Please stop referring to this usurper as “the Prince of Wales”.
… alleged PoW ok?
Fine, or ‘so-called’.
If William Windsock can be unilaterally named prince of Wales, then I am indeed Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow as named above.
We recognise no titles bestowed by the house of Windsock.
Power and influence exist ONLY where we the people recognise and accept it to be.
I give no respect to my own princely title, nor to any other. Cymru has not been well served by princes. So let’s not bother. Especially for a foreign one who cares nothing for our land or people.
Childish is playing dress up wasting our tax money. Leave it to Disney. It is right that democracy decides, not those linked with Empire crimes, still lording over us.