Plaid Cymru MP criticised for saying Wales is familiar with arguments that Ukraine ‘doesn’t have right to exist’
A Plaid Cymru MP has been criticised after saying that Wales is “familiar” with the arguments made against Ukraine’s existence by Vladimir Putin.
Arfon MP Hywel Williams wrote in his Caernarfon & Denbigh newspaper column that there was a “particular menace” for Wales in the authoritarian Russian leader’s words.
But Welsh Conservative leader Andrew RT Davies responded to say that the comparison between Ukraine’s relationship with Russia and Wales’ relationship with the UK was not appropriate.
“Wales is a willing and democratic part of the United Kingdom,” Andrew RT Davies said.
“Ukrainians are being murdered in a dictator’s invasion. To draw any comparison is at best insensitive and, at worst, minimises what Ukrainians are going through.”
Writing in the Caernarfon & Denbigh newspaper, Hywel Williams had said: “For is in Wales there is a particular menace in Vladimir Putin’s words.
“Ukraine is not a real country he says. It does not have a right to exist.
“It is he, far away in Moscow, who has the right to rule. We in Wales are familiar with these arguments.”
Hywel Williams spoke in a rally in Caernarfon on Thursday which attracted a crowd of over 200 people.
Speaking at the rally he co-organised with Liz Saville Roberts, MP for Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Hywel Williams said: “I am so glad that today in Caernarfon we join people across our continent and across the world who are saying no to this vicious and unjustified invasion.
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Hywely is 100% correct. Read about the heroic struggle of Glyndwr against massive overwhelming odds, for an obvious example. Throughout the history of Cymru the English have invaded Cymru for no other reason than they assumed, as they had a massive advantage, that it would be an easy victory.
That isn’t the point. 750 years ago the situation was just as brutal. The idea is to learn from it and use dialogue to discuss differences. Noöne is trying to make a “Welsh, been there, argument” it is about learning lessons from history and hoping for truce in a rapidly moving and truly ghastly battlefield.
750 years ago, the whole world was different and no one knows exactly what it was really like
People in Ukraine are dying. Black people are being turned away from EU borders.
It would be nice if Welsh Nationalists could STF… with the victimhood for 5 minutes.
love the umlaut in noone
My friends will yawn once more when I quote this, but Arfon’s Hywel Williams’ argument is totally correct. The prophetic Old Man of Pencader, to paraphrase, supposedly stated about 750 years ago to the battle weary Henry II en route to Cardigan (ref Gerald of Wales) that “In spite of being harried by English forces, I do not think that this nation will be destroyed by man unless punished also by the wrath of God. On the Day of Judgement I believe no other race than the Welsh or any other language will give answer to this small corner of… Read more »
And there was me thinking Andrew would still be in mourning for his farm now that Truss has donated it to New Zealand.
He’s got loads of money they started out as roubles
A willing part of the United Kingdom – since when? We’ve never had a choice.We’ve never been asked if we want to be part of this Union. If the current UK government had its way – our democratic vote would be ignored too with the abolition of the Senedd. The Tories in power in Westminster are little different to Putin – they want to destroy Wales but are doing it more subtlety.
The Tory party manifesto following devolution contained the promise of reversing the referendum results should they win an election, a motion promoted by Theresa May, thankfully for devolution Tony Blair won. So the analogy of one country denying another its democratic will, is correct I this statement. This was not 750 years ago, but just over 20. Whether people like it or not, a large majority in England would reverse devolution without a care for what the people of Cymru think, or want.
The question is about the right of a people to decide for themselves. England would deny this to the others as stated last week, when Frost said , devolution must be rolled back without people recognising it is being done. A country can suppress another without killing, but it is still suppressing the political will of the other, and denying them political choices they have made.
The UK has and still does suppress the language, culture and identity of the Cymro. The form maybe different, but the intent is the same. The intention being to turn Cymru into ‘Western Britain’ and the Cymro into just another form of the English. I don’t live in Western Britain, I live in Cymru! I’m not English, or British, I’m Cymro! My family have been living in Cymru for 1600 years and no English, British or other Nationality person is going to tell me what to do or think. England conquered Cymru, treat it like an extension of England and… Read more »
So where are your facts, examples? To
You need to get out in the wider world.
Welsh troops took part in the Norman invasion of Ireland. They took part in the Jacobite War, the plantationing of Ireland.
They took part in numerous colonial expansion.
We have daily attacks on Welsh devolution from the tory party, english media and pig ignorant brit nats.
This highlights that this is not a historic problem, but a real live question of ‘voluntary association’ https://wp.me/p8Mk4U-eL9
The people of Ukraine do not want to live in a Putin dictatorship, just as the people of Cymru do not want to live in the corrupt state that is run by a compulsive liar, that is why we have a socialist Gov,and attempts by Westminster to overrule us with things like the internal market bill, and the statement last week by the Tory Frost about reversing devolution without the people realising it is happening, are reasons why we know how other country’s feel and can empathise with them.
Plaid Cymru’s Hywel Williams is correct to make the comparison between how Russia sees Ukraine and the English establishment Wales. And Andrew RT Davies wrong to say Wales is a willing part of a democratic UK. What utter Conservative bull! Does he know how this so-called British Union was founded? By for e. And is he aware that Wales has no representation in that Union still. Also, that our language is still banned in the House of Commons chamber unlike English & Norman French? No. As usual talks out if his backside! His undemocratic Tory party since Boris Johnson came… Read more »
If you really were from Llanystumdwy you would know how it’s spelt, lad. But I don’t mind that your English grammar and English spelling is lacking.
Mam bach! Not another fake name for you? At least learn to spell it right; rookie mistake from someone claiming that their DNA is “100% Welsh”…
Does dim fyw i ddweud ond oes?
Da iawn Hywel Williams am lefaru ein hofnau.
Hywel Williams is totally correct
Hywel is clearly correct, as we are familiar with Imperialist rhetoric and actions, though the tragedy unfurling in Ukraine is on a different contemporary level. You do wonder at times how blinkered and naive is Andrew RT Davies, as he regurgitates the Brit mantra. But that at least offers a point of contrast for those of us who believe that Wales is not the inferior region that London demands us to be, but is actually a stateless nation, who are entitled to appeal for a democratic future and national self-determination, which is the norm in our political world.
Stop the war.Oppose Putin – but – Hywel would do well to look at the laws that discriminate against the minority language communities (and not just Russian) that the Ukraine government has enacted.
That Russian language discrimination is a Russian propaganda lie for their pretext to war. Everyone knows this by now.
See: Amnesty International: Ukraine 2020. It’s much worse than Martin says.
Have a look for yourself?
President Zelensky is Jewish and his first language is Russian. The Ukrainians who voted for him obviously don’t have a problem with minority languages or religions.
No. The mind set of Putin and Johnsonite Tories is the same: our nation has the right to over-ride another nation’s wishes and best interests. And that was Hywel’s point.
Pob lwc says “Ukraine’s invasion by Russia has absolutely no parallels with the relationship between Wales and England.” You’re conflagrating a current invasion action with a current situation where the invasion action occurred many years ago. Anyone who is able and of course willing to recognise how such conquering of one country by a larger more powerful neighbour is implemented then the parallel is obvious. If the logic of your statement is followed through then in the future if the Ukraine has a similar relationship with Russia as Cymru does with England then that will be all right then won’t… Read more »
A reminder that a little over 100 years ago Britain attempted to supress Ireland with military might, directed by the Mancunian David Lloyd George. The oppression of our other Celtic nations is now a little more subtle, but in the dawn of a post Brexit England it still exists and the reversal of devolution will continue to be a key Tory strategy. Hopefully, as with Ireland, this strategy will fail and we can look forward to an awakening of our nations against the might of England.
There you go again conflating a current invasion with a relationship many years post invasion.
Putin wants the Ukraine in the Russian Federation.
The facts that most people in Cymru want Cymru to be in the UK and most people in Ukraine don’t want Ukraine to be part of the Russian Federation is to follow your logic because the Ukrainians need more time to get used to the idea.
From the content of your final paragraph it would probably be better to stick to
monitoring the correct usage of words.
It’s *you* (and Hywel) who’re conflating Russia’s invasion of Ukraine with Welsh-English history! I know Nationalism is a brain-rotting drug, but surely you can’t be this far gone yet?
We can tell that by your obvious British Nationalism.
I’m Welsh. Probably more Welsh than you!
Na, dw i ddim yn meddwl. Anyway, there are plenty of “Welsh” people who are also fanatical Brit Nats. You only have to look at the “Welsh Conservatives” to see that!!
CapM. You sound like a Brexiteer who hides behind its ‘national’ policy.
Talk about throwing your dummy out of the pram!! 😂😂
ARTD is merely showing us yet again what an ignorant twit he is. Thousands of our ancestors (men, women and children) were killed by invaders from over the border as they tried to defend our country. ARTD really is an insensitive and horrible little man.
there are times when I believe that if a Plaid person said it was bright sunshine outside some Tory idiot would insist it was pitch dark night. They just simple *cannot* be seen to agree. On a more important note, if you can read this article in the FT – https://www.ft.com/content/07618e4a-c8ed-4ad8-86f4-ad0dfc729ef4?shareType=nongift – try replacing ‘Ukraine’ with ‘Wales’ and see how it goes. Some – not all – startling parralels.
Anglo troll (traitor or quisling), follow the Russian warship.
I’m Welsh, mate. I doubt you are!
We have 6 Ukrainian family members coming to live with us. They evacuated from Kyiv last weekend in horrific circumstances. I therefore feel that I have some right to express an opinion on this subject …
The Welsh ARE facing intensified threats from Westminster to our very existence as a distinct nation and culture. This is obvious. It is absolutely right to call this out.
Sending love and peace to your family. ❤