Teacher from the Midlands calls move to Wales ‘biggest mistake of my life’
Stephen Price
A teacher from the Midlands has shared her ‘desperation’ after making the ‘biggest mistake’ of her life by moving to Wales.
In the recently resurfaced post, Mumsnet user Implosion85 took to the popular parenting support website to write: “6 months ago we moved to Wales (Carmarthenshire) from the Midlands, purely because we had many happy holidays in Wales and had no family we’d miss and the kids were keen to move too.
“We bought a house here and have a small mortgage.
“The reality of the situation is different to what we imagined. Firstly, I have been unable to get a job, despite applying constantly and going to interview. I am a teacher and apply to English speaking schools obvs.
“I was a senior leader in my previous school and have excellent references and outstanding ofsteds, but no luck here My self esteem is now rock bottom.
“My husband has also been unable to get a job. He was self employed. As a result of me not getting a job, he is still working during the week in the Midlands and travelling back every Friday evening. It’s exhausting and miserable for him.
“I’m also desperately lonely and the children miss their dad I haven’t made any friends yet either. I feel really miserable every time I’m asked ‘where I’m from’ and if I’m on holiday as it makes me feel like such a lonely outsider.”
“Delicate”
She continued: “Even if my husband was here during the week, I’m not sure how much difference it would make now as I just feel hideous about it all snd want to ‘go home’.
“My previous school have a vacancy and have asked for me back. But it’d mean renting in the Midlands and then having to try and sell the house here and all that palava as well as paying a mortgage AND rent.
“What a nightmare. I don’t know what we were thinking of.”
She asked: “Does anyone have any advice? Sympathies?” before pleading with other users: “Please be gentle with me. I’ve gone on to antidepressants and feel SO delicate.”
Ourdoorz wrote: “I’ve just seen this thread. I know it’s a couple of months old but was wondering how you’re getting on now? I strongly agree that you should take the job at your old school and move back.
“There is so much pressure on hiring managers to hire local Welsh people that you’re very unlikely to get a job where you’ve moved, and if you do then you probably won’t be treated very well in your workplace.
“My mother went through this in Wales and ended up moving back home, thank goodness. I don’t blame the Welsh people – they just don’t want people moving in and taking advantage of the relatively low house prices, then taking jobs from local people meaning their children then can’t live there. But understanding the situation doesn’t make it any easier for you.”
“Colloquial”
RappersNeedChapstick said: “My sister-in-law moved to Wales some years ago and only found work through her Welsh mother in law. Had she not been living with a Welsh guy I don’t think she would gave ever been accepted by the community.
“Interestingly though when they split she moved not that far away and it was totally different and she was accepted very quickly by the locals.”
Mehefin wrote: “I think even English speaking schools in Carmarthenshire require staff to have a level of conversational Welsh as the council views the county as bilingual which could be a factor in your job search.
“Signing up for language classes would help you professionally and socially and be something positive to do while you’re making a decision.
“You don’t mention your children’s ages but one of mine at age 9 went from no Welsh to fluent in four terms at a Welsh language primary school. It’s a different culture here in Wales and you need to throw yourself in just as you would if you moved to France or somewhere.”
CissOff said: “Welsh here but not first language and that alone would put me off moving to Carms.
“I would always choose Pembs – it’s like night and day in terms of vibe and most people don’t speak Welsh, even though it’s one county across (they also like to vote Tory but you can’t have it all).”
Another user suggested the teacher had gone a little too deep into Wales, saying: “I think you’ve gone just slightly too far West.
“Swansea is probably as far West as English people tend to feel comfortable, it gets a bit colloquial any further down the M4 (I used to live in Carmarthen, but now just on the Swansea/Carmarthenshire border, and it’s a very different feel).”
“Return home”
Another commenter, Friendofdennis answered: “I’m so sorry but the reality is that you are unlikely to get a teaching post in Carmarthenshire without welsh proficiency.
“Welsh is a protected and promoted language and there is no shortage of candidates who will be relatively decent speakers at the very least. I am so sorry that you have found this out the hard way. I am Welsh but had been living in England for a long time before coming back.
“My Welsh is basic and I was never able to get a position in my public sector field here (Carmarthenshire ) in the end I changed careers completely. If you want to stay in teaching it is probably best to return to your original home.”
Iwasafool agreed with the teacher, saying: “It’s beautiful but it isn’t home, I hate small town life. Being beautiful isn’t everything, I used to love to go to the beach but I never go now, it is a mile away and I haven’t been in nearly a year.
“I had a good job which helped but I’m retired now so it just feels like a huge void, they call it God’s waiting room as so many old people retire here. It is an apt name.”
Another unhappy English immigrant to Wales, Jessieshome, wrote: “I’d say move back to England. I moved to Wales, not because I had a fondness for the place but my partner was born and bred here and when we wanted to start a family it was the best option.
“I’ve been here 10 years and still feel like an outsider and very lonely at times. I’ve experienced a lot of nasty nationalism/anti Englishness (although I have also met lots and lots of lovely friendly locals!) and I seriously miss my family. And I know I’ll never be considered a local as such.
“You are really really going to struggle to get a job teaching in Carmarthenshire if you can’t speak good Welsh as they’ll always be plenty of people who can in that part of Wales and it’s very important in Carmarthenshire.
“There are things you can do to make friends, join local groups etc, learn Welsh, but in West Wales people are often part of the same communities all their lives, have very strong long established friendships which can be hard to infiltrate!
“There are probably quite a few people who have moved there though that will know how you feel, if you can find them. I have been very lonely and very miserable in Wales, it’s not even like the weather is nice, and desperate to move ‘home’. However the children are very settled and we have good jobs so I’m kind of stuck as it’d be selfish for me to move everyone just for me.”
Update
The teacher returned to the comments with an update, saying: “I can’t thank you enough for all your help, kindness and advice.
“I’ve been reading and reading but I have been in such a bad way this week that I haven’t been able to find eloquent words to put together.
“I genuinely don’t think my lack of job is due to my lack of interview technique (I have spent many years interviewing for teaching posts), but I think it’s entirely due to my lack of Welsh (mentioned during the ‘rejection’ feedback several times). I have tried very hard to learn some, but I find it quite impossible.
“Interestingly I very rarely hear Welsh being spoken day to day, so I was totally naive in the importance it has in gaining a teaching post.
“I think we are going to go back. It just feels like such a mammoth operation. I’m also scared of the second house tax implications etc and how hard that might be financially for us, although easier when we both have jobs.
“Would it count (as) a second home whilst we sell it if we are renting back in the Midlands? I don’t really understand the ins and outs of it.
“I truly feel like an alien here and like I have a massive tattoo on my head that says ‘I’m English’.”
Support our Nation today
For the price of a cup of coffee a month you can help us create an independent, not-for-profit, national news service for the people of Wales, by the people of Wales.
Welsh jobs here in Cymru are being taken by English incomers right, left and centre. Go into the shops and you’ll find that staff members are mostly English. If the managers are English the Welsh job applicants have no chance. They favour their own kind first.
My message to this lady is: Try getting a teaching job in France, Spain, Italy etc. without a knowledge of the language.
Very true
You wouldn’t even attain citizenship without passing a language test in those European countries, but then everyone in those countries speaks their native language all the time. It’s a bit different in Wales where so many people speak English as their first language which gives little incentive to learn Welsh.
Amazing. The stupidity of some people is mind-bogging.
Something doesn’t ring true about a teacher who has held senior positions finding it ‘impossible’ to learn Welsh. It’s not Klingon. It’s an Indo-European language not really that different from the others.
b******s! I was born & raised in the Cynon Valley and do not speak my ‘ mother – tongue’. I put the blame solely on our Grandparents who could speak it, but never passed it on down. They, like so many of that era, used it only to speak of scandal in the village, in low, muted tones. Don’t forget that the English Government outlawed it’s use decades, if not Centuries before. If you wanted work, you were forbidden to speak Welsh. My parents, also now long dead, could understand it but not speak it fluently. My trying to learn… Read more »
My half Welsh grandmother thought that speaking Welsh was common!
It’s not as common as it used to be.
I suspect Wales can live without you too with that kind of attitude. Wales does need to modernise big time, but we’ve got to do it together.
Well Kelvin! For shame! I can almost hear your grandparents’ voices echoing my words yn Gymraeg ‘Rhag dy gywilydd di, Kelvin!’ You had my support and sympathy initially. Societal pressures on our parents’ and grandparents’ generations to favour English over Cymraeg is well understood, but because it resulted in you not being able to speak the language, is not the language’s fault! Despise and hate the status quo that existed by all means, but not the language! Why not have a change of heart? Even though you don’t speak Cymraeg, it’s still part of your story. Treasure the regret that,… Read more »
The stupidity of this woman in buying a house in another country and moving to it before first securing a job there is beyond belief. As a newly qualified lecturer in the 1960s I moved from Llanelli to Watford but only after I was appointed as a lecturer in Watford College of Technology. There is no way I would have moved to Watford (or anywhere else) otherwise.
I can imagine that you were also expected to have learnt to speak English fluently before moving there.
I disagree. Sometimes it’s the only way. I moved without a job because I had to give many months’ notice for my job and flat and no employer would have waited that long. Of course, I had the funds to keep me a few months while I looked for a new job.
That’s not how it works in teaching. We are allowed to take time off work to attend job interviews. We have to get our resignations in typically before the end of May. That way we are clear to start teaching at our new school in September. Strangely, this woman who considers herself suitable for leadership positions hasn’t considered the possibility that the interviewers think she is overestimating her abilities considering the fact that she moved to CARMARTHENSHIRE, where it is a requirement for teachers and college lecturers to speak Welsh, without doing any research about the area. There are plenty… Read more »
I’m baffled, but how does this constitute ‘news’??? At best it’s opinion.
A bit of cut n paste of peoples views from the Mumsnet forum.
Come on Nation, be better!
I agree, this is the sort of lazy clickbaity nonsense you expect to see on Wales Online. Nation should be better than this.
‘She asked: “Does anyone have any advice? Sympathies?”’ I do feel some sympathy, because drastic family moves decided upon in optimism and hope don’t always ultimately work out positively. That’s happened to me in life, though the reasons had nothing whatever to do with me moving to live in Wales. My experience of making that move – I grew up in the north-west of England and came to Wales simply because a Welsh university made me my most attractive offer – was good: I ended up staying here for twenty years before family issues necessitated my return to my home area,… Read more »
Chapeau! (Het off! 😄)
I don’t wear hats – perhaps unwisely given my degree of age-related hair loss! – but nonetheless I do appreciate your response.
Dyna stori hyfryd, John! Dyn ni angen mwy o bobol fel chi a’ch partner yma yng Nghymru! Dyn ni wir yn gwerthfawrogi eich ymdrechion i ddysgu’r iaith ac i ffitio mewn!
Bit odd to find an article on Nation that is almost entirely from the point of view of English people (with the usual anti Welsh tropes) who have basically moved to a foreign country without bothering to think about what that might entail, and then (of course) blame the country rather than themselves…
I could feel some empathy I guess but it would be reserved as I don’t know the whole story. I’m not saying that ‘there are two sides to every story’ but careful research before deciding to move to Cymru would have shown that, even in the South, bi lingualism is a requirement in virtually every authority. A demonstrable willingness to learn Welsh would have helped a great deal. In many communities there is a gradual ‘getting to know you’ process and, yes, there can be some hostility towards incomers but that’s understandable given the negative impact on housing stock second… Read more »
This isn’t news it’s just an article made out of comments smushed together if I want to read this kind of thing I’d go to one of ReachPLCs websites.
Totally. Stephen writes some really good articles on here so it’s sad to see him churning out stuff like this. All it needs is a photo of the plucky victims frowning into the lens and the transformation into Wales Online is complete!
We really need a decent news outlet in Wales, so please Nation.cymru, have a little more self-respect!
All feedback taken on the chin don’t worry… the comments here and on social media have had me howling all day. Sorry 😀
I haven’t been on Facebook for over a year, but I can imagine that the comments section is pure entertainment! 😂
Wise man. This hasn’t done me any favours at all, but it’s had a ridiculous amount of hits and given me untold joy so EXPECT MORE SOON. (or maybe not!) 😀
You’re a very good writer Stephen, don’t let this deter you! It’s a learning moment…
Telling someone like me not to do something usually brings out my defiant side, but I won’t be visiting Mumsnet any time soon I promise.
If a piece of art, be it music poetry or an opinion piece triggers some, then the item has fully qualified itself as art.
Mumsnet is a goldmine of potential “product”. Errant husbands, gender ambivalent kids, drunken ex partners, Keir Starmer as a sex symbol (not so much now), leering cowboy builders, the shocking price of Oxfordshire farm houses, and those lovely French holiday homes with no WiFi and Asian hornets in the loft. Just give it a strong Welsh “TWIST” and you’re made for life. Personally I think this woman should hang about until Reform take over and then she can slot in as an English governess to the uppity children of their MSs. I even see it as a BBC 2 series.… Read more »
I’m afraid I call absolute BS on this. If you hold job thatdoesnt normally employ morons, why should you do something so utterly stupid like not secure gainful employment?? Also, a very basic level of respect politeness and human decency, is to learn the language of whichever country you’re migrating to I definitely wouldn’t want someone disrespectful and ignorant in a teaching post The newer posts have not given a single mention of this person doing anything whatsoever to integrate, and given that they claim to bea teacher, they should be capable of achieving the mynediad lefel dysgu cymraeg course… Read more »
Person moves to another country and expects it to be exactly the same as the country she’s just left. Remarkable!
Simply appalling that she’s a teacher. Imagine not securing a job and then migrating to a country and complaining about it.
At least have a backup plan like online tutoring.
I thought teaching was helping children to prepare for living, where was her preparation?
It’s like those tv shows where clueless people move their families to New Zealand or Australia based on one holiday, and are back in 6 months.
What a load of rubbish. There are less jobs in West Wales because there are less schools and turnover of staff is significantly lower – just like areas of England eg Cornwall. This woman has assumed demand for supply would be like Manchester where the population is the total of all Wales. You would have at least thought she would have done her research first.
Trist iawn, very sad… it’s like she moved to a different country.
You’d think you’d do a bit of homework on an area before buying a house.
Twp, twp, twp!
She’s free to rent out her property to a local family if sellling it is difficult.
Let me guess: “oh no, I couldn’t have locals living in it”.
NC trawling mumsnet for material. Whatever next? If these cherry-picked online comments are supposed to be accurate, then I fail to see ‘the story’. Woman packs in job, takes kids to foreign country and is surprised that it’s not an extension the Midlands. Who’d guess?
And all those comments about nobody speaking Welsh in the town anyway. That may be down to the thousands of English migrants that have managed to secure employment in the area. But, I fear that the commenters may be just a teensy bit biased. I hear Welsh all over Carms, especially the town.
‘Woman packs in job, takes kids to foreign country and is surprised that it’s not an extension the Midlands.’ The fly in that argument is that most Brits – and conceivably perhaps even most Welsh folk – don’t regard Wales as a ‘foreign country’ in relation to England in the same way as they might think, for instance, of France or Belgium. Having said that, it does strike me as – to put it gently! – extraordinarily rash to pack in your job in one place and move to somewhere else that you don’t really know and assume, apparently without… Read more »
Clickbait. Not news
Self pity. One should never confuse a holiday experience with real life.
Anyone remember the “Ll” Files and the eternal search for a “teacher of Physics through the medium of Welsh”?
there is currently 4 teaching jobs available in carmarthenshire on the councils job site all of which state that welsh is required teacher design and technology – welsh language skills: Level 5 – You will need to be able to communicate fluently in Welsh Teacher of Science (Chemistry specialist) – welsh language skills: Level 5 – You will need to be able to communicate fluently in Welsh Teacher of Science – Physics Specialist – welsh language skills: Level 2 – You will need a basic level of conversational Welsh.Teacher – Model Church in Wales School – welsh language skills: Level… Read more »
Surely they’re not still looking for one? (see my previous post)
I grew up in Wales and have family here. We moved back 2 1/2 years ago and I can’t get a job teaching either because I can no longer speak Welsh. They would rather have a TA or the headteacher doing it. I now work for the NHS for the health visiting team and I’ve never been made to feel bad about no longer being able to speak Welsh. I love my new job and feel really appreciated. Maybe try a different career but still to do with children?
I’m a Bristolian who has lived and worked in the West Midlands and East Anglia. I moved to the most Welsh-speaking part of North Wales and have never once, in five years, felt an outsider. Not one person has questioned where I’m from, and I’ve been welcomed by my local community. At least a year before the move, I made an effort to start learning Welsh which I found easier than the German I was taught at school. I’ve joined my local Welsh learners’ group and help with community projects. My heritage is partly Welsh, I now identify as Welsh,… Read more »
Agwedd (Attitude) hyfryd, Sali! Mwy o bobol fel chi, dyn ni eu hangen!
“I feel really miserable every time I’m asked ‘where I’m from’ and if I’m on holiday as it makes me feel like such a lonely outsider.” I have lived in London since 1984 and having a Welsh accent I am endlessly being asked where I am from, or worse having my accent mocked. I am constantly being asked to explain how I am in London with a Welsh accent.
I would say for your own sanity, family happiness and wellbeing, move back home where you will be appreciated. Good luck.
When I moved to Wales I had the good sense to find employment first, most businesses are UK wide so not too difficult, I have never felt the need to learn Welsh and my Welsh wife can’t speak it either, we both consider ourselves as British and have many friends either side of the river Wye