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Tory MS tells Senedd it ‘must respect’ that UK Parliament ‘remains sovereign’

22 Dec 2021 4 minute read
Darren Millar MS speaking in the Senedd

A Tory MS has told his fellow Senedd members that they “must respect the fact that the UK Parliament remains sovereign”.

Darren Millar, the Conservative Senedd member for Clwyd West, made the comments during a debate about the way Westminster legislates in devolved areas.

When the UK Government wants to pass a law in an area that has been devolved to Wales, it sends the Senedd what it called a legislative consent motion.

The Senedd has refused to grant consent on more than one occasion However, under the UK constitution Westminster has the power to overrule the Senedd, and it has done so when consent has been denied by the devolved chamber.

During a debate on the subject, Plaid Cymru MS Rhys ab Owen pointed to a “huge increase” in legislative consent motions being sent by Westminster.

He argued that this “reflects the contempt of the Tory Government, which is seeking to undermine the devolution settlement.”

He added that “they are a Trojan horse that slowly, stealthily and steadily erodes the very foundation of the political system here in Wales”.

Darren Millar said: “Sometimes, the majority of people in north Wales and representing seats in north Wales vote against the decisions that are taken by politicians predominantly from the south in the Senedd. I don’t baulk too much about that.

“I don’t suggest that we need a process that allows for some respect of the fact that people in north Wales might disagree and their representatives might disagree. I accept that that is democracy.

“And we must respect the fact that the UK Parliament remains sovereign in the UK, across the whole of the UK. And of course devolution must be respected, but we must not forget the fact that the UK Parliament remains sovereign.”

‘Huge increase’ 

Rhys ab Owen said: “The past two years have seen a huge increase in the number of legislative consent motions brought forward to this Chamber. Last year the number was highest, with 18, and this year the second highest, with 16.

“This reflects the contempt of the Tory Government, which is seeking to undermine the devolution settlement. Essentially, these LCMs are only for show. The Sewel convention is something that’s a thing of the past.

“The Westminster Government will continue to ignore this Parliament and continue with its own agenda, whatever the result of the votes on LCMs in this Senedd. This shows how voiceless and inconsequential our nation’s Senedd is in Westminster.

“The increase in LCMs should be of real concern for supporters of democracy here in Wales. They are a real threat to this institution, yet they pass through this Chamber like a mere footnote.

“Even the most ardent of political commentators don’t pick up on them, but they are a Trojan horse that slowly, stealthily and steadily erodes the very foundation of the political system here in Wales. We need to wake up to the threat or we will see a far weakened Senedd by the next election. No matter what the committee on Senedd reform does, we could see a far weakened Senedd here by the next election.”

He added: “The people of Wales voted twice in favour of this Senedd, and there was a significant pro-devolution majority elected to this place in May.

“We must not undermine this clear democratic mandate by passing over our powers to Tory Ministers without any real scrutiny here at all. Welsh laws should be scrutinised properly by us as Members.

“That’s our job. I want to see a Senedd that is strong and democratic, an empowered Senedd that uses its powers fully to effect positive change to the lives of the people of Wales.”


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Dafydd
Dafydd
11 months ago

Why ‘must’ we respect an institution that doesn’t respect us? Absolute sicophant!

Y Cymro
Y Cymro
11 months ago
Reply to  Dafydd

The very same warped Unionist mindset stated during the Brexit campaign & vote how the EU were full of faceless bureaucrats that stole Britain’s power & sovereignty, now condone Whitehall imposition of Wales Senedd powers, who advocates the overruling Welsh Government competency, and that Welsh sovereignty lies with England not Wales?

Last edited 11 months ago by Y Cymro
Ernie The Smallholder
Ernie The Smallholder
11 months ago

This is the problem when you have a constitution (un-written) that is not evenly structured.

The English regions should each have a Senedd or Lander, to which their first ministers and top-up, along with Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland should be
able to send representatives to the 2nd chamber to exam, amend or veto legislation.
There should be written constitutional law governing this which can only be changed by a referendum.

This federal arrangement works well in Germany, so why not in Britain, unless it is really the intention of the UK government to rule from the centre.

Gareth
Gareth
11 months ago

Darren Millar needs to remember he is there to “respect” the people of Wales and its elected government, not Westminster. If that is what he wants he should stand as an MP for Westminster, and let us run our own affairs.

Quornby
Quornby
11 months ago

Millar? Him again?

Gwyn Williams
Gwyn Williams
11 months ago
Reply to  Quornby

Hi., and his brother Robin.

Cai Wogan Jones
Cai Wogan Jones
11 months ago

In other words …

“Know your place, Taff: just you remember who’s the boss!”

Mark
Mark
11 months ago

As an elected member of the Welsh Parliament, perhaps Mr Millar should stick to representing his constituency in Wales rather than worrying about Westminster.

GW Atkinson
GW Atkinson
11 months ago

We have to start using the word quisling more often. He doesn’t give a sh1t about Wales, he just wants to please the occupiers and invaders to curry their favour just like the real Quisling did.

Erisian
Erisian
11 months ago
Reply to  GW Atkinson

Perfect use of the term – for all the so-called Welsh Tories

Mochyn 69
Mochyn 69
11 months ago

Indy NOW!

Erisian
Erisian
11 months ago

Dylai fe symud i Loegr i eistedd wrth draed ei feistri.

Karl
Karl
11 months ago

I don’t blame that sicophant. I do wonder who voted for him though.

Richard
Richard
11 months ago
Reply to  Karl

Rather a lot of people Karl and not just retired folk in the coast 🤔

j humphrys
j humphrys
11 months ago
Reply to  Richard

…….but mostly.

Richard
Richard
11 months ago
Reply to  j humphrys

Possibly – Yea – but this very simple view that Tory voters are all or mostly incomers or ‘ uncle toms ‘ seeking to ignore or do down Wales might be good election stuff in some parts – but very very far from the truth. We need to look 👀 inside first before we blame ‘ Jonny foreigner ‘ as one recent correspondent called those who have recently settled here. I represented a large sea side local authority area over 33 years – continuing over 80 per cent ‘ incomes ‘ – and fought Tory candidates in each election. These… Read more »

Last edited 11 months ago by Richard
Rhosddu
Rhosddu
11 months ago
Reply to  Richard

I suspect there’s some truth in that. Even in areas that are settler-magnets, they would be likely to still be outnumbered and outvoted; and Millar didn’t win his seat on an anti-devolution ticket. In fact, Tory candidates in Senedd constituents either kept quiet about devolution or made lukewarm noises in support of it. It is only very recently that they have all been denigrating devolution itself as opposed to criticising individual Welsh Government policies; this suggests a concerted attack orchestrated from London Tory HQ in response to the annihilation of their allies in the “Abolish” fringe parties.

Last edited 11 months ago by Rhosddu
Richard
Richard
11 months ago
Reply to  Rhosddu

Your not far off on this mate. DM is a hard working local AM and I guess not No1 on the Christmas Card list of the local MP David Jones. – so well known for his love of things Welsh 😱

Rhosddu
Rhosddu
11 months ago
Reply to  Richard

I’m sure he is very hardworking, but he is also an apologist for unionism and a Westminster groupie.

Mark
Mark
11 months ago
Reply to  Karl

well, in my little corner of Brecon and Radnorshire, I’m surrounded by the idiots,

Mr Williams
Mr Williams
11 months ago

“And we must respect the fact that the UK Parliament remains sovereign in the UK ….”

No, Mr Miller- the PEOPLE are sovereign and Parliament is there to serve. It’s called democracy!

Speaking of which, two referenda in favour if devolved government in Wales …..

Grayham Jones
11 months ago

We in wales have got to stop being little Englanders and and be proud to be welsh kick all English party’s out of wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 it’s time for a new wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

Y Cymro
Y Cymro
11 months ago

Basically Tory traitor Darren Millar is saying. Whitehall has the right to use & abuse Wales and the Welsh have no human rights.

R W
R W
11 months ago

Can anyone remember the time when the people of Wales voted for Westminster to be sovereign over us? Me neither!! Time for indy.

Gwyn Williams
Gwyn Williams
11 months ago
Reply to  R W

No, I wasn’t around in 1859.

Richard 1
Richard 1
11 months ago

It’s “sycophant”, from the Greek word sycophantes, meaning “informer” “swindler” and “confidential agent”. I’d be happy with sickophant though.

j humphrys
j humphrys
11 months ago

Brexiteer, who holds Brit. and Irish citizenship!

Marc Davies
Marc Davies
11 months ago

The points he raises are correct. Our Senedd is an administration that has been devolved. Any Sovereignty that we possess is granted (i.e. lent) by the UK Parliament. We are subservient to that authority on the Thames, and are subjects of the English Crown, and things shall remain that way until we attain political independence.

Y Cymro
Y Cymro
11 months ago
Reply to  Marc Davies

I agree. Welsh independence is our only option. Devolution alone cannot protect us. The reality is Wales has never been part of any British Union. And supporters of Unionism can say what they like to convince the ignorant, uninformed & naive that black is in fact white, but they cannot pull the wool over the eyes of ones informed. The British Union was created by England so it could control Scotland & Ireland. As you know, Wales doesn’t feature in any symbolism as we were annexed by the English Crown akin to Nazi Germany invading Poland. And where the Poles… Read more »

Last edited 11 months ago by Y Cymro
Steve Duggan
Steve Duggan
11 months ago

So the Tories are using that old tactic again eh? Divide and conquer. “Sometimes, the majority of people in north Wales and representing seats in north Wales vote against the decisions that are taken by politicians predominantly from the south in the Senedd. I don’t baulk too much about that”
It’s not going to work this time mate.
The Tories hate devolution and will use any method available to undemine and eventually destroy it. We must gain independence before they succeed.

Frances McKie
Frances McKie
11 months ago

I hope Wales and Scotland stand together to protect devolved areas from the tory hostility to devolution and their determination- which has never wavered since Thatcher- to tighten the noose round the necks of both ancient nations.

Gareth Wyn Jones
Gareth Wyn Jones
11 months ago

He is a nice guy just having a bit of fun, like his leader, why can we just bow to to him like we did before?

Ieuan Evans
Ieuan Evans
11 months ago

Darren Millar said: “Sometimes, the majority of people in north Wales and representing seats in north Wales vote against the decisions that are taken by politicians predominantly from the south in the Senedd. That is democracy ” What the eff##n hell is this Irish pasport holder on about. He must have a deranged mind considering that Wales is controlled by England controlled Westminster Parliament.

Argol Fawr
Argol Fawr
11 months ago

On such basis as the tories clearly don’t respect the UK devolved governments, why should those there choose to respect Gov UK. Add onto that the rife corruption in their ranks (no, it’s not sleaze, it’s corruption), and you could only be a fully paid up right wing tory to think otherwise.

Last edited 11 months ago by Argol Fawr

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