Brexit has awoken the Welsh independence movement

A Yes Cymru protest in support of Catalonia on Saturday. Picture by Yes Cymru

Aled Gwyn Job

Despite Brexit and its associated risks to our economy and autonomy, these are undoubtedly exciting times in Wales.

Whatever your views on last year’s EU referendum, the result has galvanised the national movement in Wales in a way that has not been seen for many, many years.

It could even be ventured that the present atmosphere is akin to that sense of national awakening which promised so much at one stage during the late 1960s.

Plaid Cymru’s annual conference last weekend seemed more animated than usual, featuring an almost evangelistic address from Adam Price invoking the Israelites’ journey from captivity in Egypt to the freedom of Canaan.

Dr Dai Lloyd also left a browbeaten BBC journalist in no doubt whatsoever that Plaid would now be more of an out and out nationalist party.

Then there was Neil McEvoy’s fringe event which attracted 120 people to the Celtic Hotel to hear his barely-veiled pitch for the leadership of the party, in the form of his “2020 Vision” declaration.

It was an undoubted coup for McEvoy to attract such a gathering, and although his presentation of a dream of a Sovereign Wales might have been slightly underwhelming following the whole hype created beforehand, he certainly has a dedicated and growing following within the party.

Time will tell of course whether he will have the opportunity to fully develop his vision, within or outside of Plaid Cymru.

Then we have the growing Yes Cymru movement which seems to be establishing new groups on almost a weekly basis.

Its members are dedicated to taking the message about Welsh Independence directly to the people of Wales in their own communities, and beyond the usual party-political boundaries.

And if that was not enough, a meeting has been called in Aberystwyth this weekend with the aim of establishing a new national party to adopt an unashamedly Wales First approach.

The original venue has apparently now been changed to accommodate the substantial numbers expected to turn up.

Uncharted territory

We will have to wait to see how the above pans out and whether indeed the disparate groups can work together in any shape or form.

Disunity has been the curse of the Welsh national movement going back to medieval times. Let us hope that this time we can recognise that even though we may be taking different paths we all have the same destination in mind.

Whatever happens, surely the above groupings must acknowledge that we are now in completely unchartered political territory and that their pitch to Welsh voters and citizens from now on must reflect this new world we find ourselves in.

For better or worse, the Brexit decision has been taken and there can be no doubt that the UK is now leaving the European Union.

Indeed, the most likely outcome is that the UK Government will crash out of the EU over the next few months without a formal deal in place

WTO tariffs will probably be put in place, at least temporarily, which will obviously hurt the Welsh export economy in the short run.

But despite that initial shock to the system, a new emphasis on developing a self-sufficient internal market is likely to emerge to take up any slack both within Wales itself, and the rest of these isles as well.

The Welsh National Movement must adjust itself quickly to this new reality and show an unprecedented amount of agility and imagination to deal with this momentous change.

I would argue that it needs to quickly adopt a fresh approach which can acknowledge this new state of affairs and turn it to Wales’s advantage.

An Independent Wales in Britain is the way to both acknowledge this new reality and transform it.

Those who voted for Brexit wanted to take back control, and give the establishment a bloody nose – the Welsh national movement offers the opportunity to do both.

Empire

Many nationalists will be aghast at such an argument of course. Such people have invested everything in their view of the European Union as a benign, philanthropic and a force for good on the continent.

Unfortunately, wearing those rose-tinted spectacles has meant that many have failed to see that the EU is, in fact, a deeply anti-democratic institution which favours a parasitic Banking Sector and Big Corporations above all else.

Furthermore, it is, and has been for many years, an Empire-building project with the clear intention of deleting national identities in favour of one European state run by technocrats.

History advises us to be deeply sceptical of such Empires and its leaders.

And of course, we have just witnessed the most glaring example yet of the democratic deficit which lies at the cold heart of the European Union.

The debacle of the Catalunya Independence Referendum where the EU failed to recognise the country as an independent republic or condemn Spanish violence against people merely exercising their democratic right to choose their own national future was quite simply sickening. The Emperor truly now has no clothes.

The national movement in Wales must see that this is a historic waking up moment for people all over Europe.

The tectonic plates are shifting and there is a golden opportunity, for the first time in centuries, to build a Wales that works for its own citizens.

And there is a clear and successful alternative European model which it could seek to emulate, i.e. a Scandinavian model for Wales within Britain.

In Scandinavia, Sweden, Denmark and Norway share a peninsula and a shared culture to some extent- but they are also all independent countries which then opt to co-operate with each other in some respects.

The Scandinavian model of economic dynamism and social well-being underpinned by a strong sense of national identity provides a clear path for Wales to follow post-Brexit.

Opportunity

Independence has been a word that has frightened too many people for too many years in Wales since it has appeared to convey a sense of withdrawal, a drawing up of the bridges, and a willful turning away into some sort of irrelevant isolation.

Independence for Wales in Britain, however, can be a way of finally overcoming these fears and turning it instead into a transformational project which can inspire the people of Wales to imagine a better future for themselves, their families and their communities.

One of the advantages of Brexit (and least acknowledged so far) is the fact that England in due course will be forced at long last to forego its imperial delusions and face up to the fact that it is a medium-sized European nation sharing this island with two other nations.

It will also need to address the long-neglected truth that it is completely divided nation, with its constituent parts feeling totally at odds with each other.

In this eventual national reckoning, who can say what will eventually emerge.

History, culture and political reality have now come together to offer the Welsh National Movement a golden opportunity in the wake of Brexit. Let’s not waste it.

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Neil McEvoy
Guest
Neil McEvoy

The 20:20 fringe was the start of a debate on how to create a road map for Wales. Some of the alleged “hype” before hand was from elements who wanted to sow division for their own internal games. They got nothing from our fringe on that score and I’m glad. Sovereignty is something I want to hear of every Plaid politician talking about, constantly. For future reference, people will be able to look back and see where this really started. Underwhelming? Gawn ni weld.

Roger
Guest
Roger

‘Disunity has been the curse of the Welsh national movement going back to medieval times’. Disunity actually has been the curse of ‘Wales’ from Medieval times. More so with the emergence of the Labour Party poisoning peoples minds against anything culturally Welsh, especially the language. Now with the possible Boundary Changes going to seemingly produce a Tory majority in Westminster. All of a sudden the Labour Party seems to be quietly assuming the Independence mantle and jumping on to Plaid Cymru’s waggon. Who are they really looking out for, Wales and its people or themselves and their survival in power… Read more »

leigh richards
Guest

An interesting post from aled job and he’s right about brexit impacting upon the welsh national movement – but it needs to be stressed that the brexit vote doesnt in any way lessen the legitimacy of wales right to self determination. Wales is still a nation with the inalienable right to manage its own affairs should its people choose to exercise that right. My concern about the proposed “Independent Wales in Britain” is that it isnt independence at all – i presume for example it would mean we would still be expected to bow and scrape to a representative of… Read more »

daffy2012
Guest

I agree with you Leigh regarding anything less than independence is ‘a cop out’. But we have to be pragmatic don’t we? I would gladly take a Federal (Devo-max) offer if it was on the table. Like-wise and off of ‘Dominion status’ which has been spoken of lately. We have to be pragmatic and take one step at a time. Firstly, getting control of our economy in order to show that we are able to balance the books. That would then destroy the biggest argument against independence namely the often mentioned ‘Wales wouldn’t survive by itself’. But even getting this… Read more »

leigh richards
Guest

Certainly daffy in the short term yes i’ll take any extra powers for Wales that are going – devo max etc. Hence my active involvement in both yes campaigns in 97 and 2011. But all i would say to people in the national movement – and the excellent Yes Cymru in particular – is not to lose sight of our ultimate goal ie a sovereign and independent wales.

Efnisien fab Euroswydd
Guest
Efnisien fab Euroswydd

No, we categorically do not need to “show that we are able to balance the books.”

It is this level of economic illiteracy that makes people believe Wales isn’t economically viable in the first place.

daffy2012
Guest

You know what I mean. Don’t try and be over clever. I am aware that the UK doesn’t balance the books and has a continuous budget deficit. But whether or not they should do this is another argument.

Davydh Trethewey (@MawKernewek)
Guest

Catalonia shows the limitations of devolution as they had there, in that the central power can unilaterally take back devolved powers. I believe it is only a “convention”/”gentleman’s agreement” that the UK parliament doesn’t overrule devolved legislatures on devolved matters.

Daf
Guest
Daf

And I thought that the Brexiteers were either:

A. Rabid, right wing, British Tory/DUP Colonial Empire-loyal extremists;

B. Backward looking – “wasn’t GB great in the 1950s?” – old fogeys;

C. The under-educated, tabloid-consuming, underclass.

How does progressive Welsh Nationialism fit into this?

Eos Pengwern
Guest
Eos Pengwern

Strange prejudices; have you ever met one?

Daf
Guest
Daf

Oh yes, met plenty! And seen the wild-eyed UKIP crowd on BBCQT.

Eos Pengwern
Guest
Eos Pengwern

I’m curious which of these three categories you’d put me into. I’m as hard-line a hard-Brexiteer as you’ll meet on this site, and: – I used to be the Branch Secretary of Plaid Cymru in Wrexham (back in the Wigley era). – Rwy’n Cymro Cymraeg, wedi treulio fy mebyd yn Eifionydd. – I’m as strongly persuaded of the case for Welsh independence as I am of the case for Brexit (since I maintain that they’re basically the same arguments) – I have a PhD in Physics, spent nearly half my career in Silicon Valley and am now involved in two… Read more »

Daf
Guest
Daf

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf eich bod wedi cymryd fy sylwadau mor bersonol, Eos.
Mae’n siwr bod gennych resymau dilys dros bleidleisio Brexit.

It’s not me compartmentalising people, it’s the stats. For instance:
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/
says:

71% of 18-24 year olds voted Remain; 64% of 65+ age group voted Leave
68% of graduates voted Remain; 70% of “GCSE or lower” voted Leave
95% of UKIP voters voted Leave.

Personally, I would really examine my beliefs if I found myself agreeing with the likes of:
Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, John Redwood, Nigel Farage, Liam Fox, Owen Paterson,
The Daily Mail, The Sun,
Marine Le Pen, Putin, etc.

Eos Pengwern
Guest
Eos Pengwern

Peidiwch a phoeni, Daf, dydw i ddim yn cymryd tramgwydd yn hawdd; mae pobl wedi fy ngalw i’n bethau llawer gwaeth! I agree about the stats, but that still leaves an awfully large number of young graduates who voted Leave. My more general point is that I think the fragmentation and compartmentalisation of people into ‘interest groups’ who are then all expected to vote the same way – in their perceived interests and against the perceived interests of others – is a Very Bad Thing which drives people apart and creates animosity where there should be reasoned debate. One of… Read more »

WSC
Guest

I was pleased to see an article published on this website that distanced itself from the usual Global/UK/Plaid Cymru/Establishment view that leaving the EU is a disaster. The referendum result does seem to have jolted democratic debate back to life, if nothing else. I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much democracy. And democracy can be messy. Hence the statement “Disunity has been the curse of the Welsh national movement going back to medieval times.” could actually be an indication that our nation is more democratic in nature than other ‘unified’ nations and states.… Read more »

leigh richards
Guest

Problem with that approach WSC is we in Wales dont have the macro economic powers we need to build up the welsh economy – those economic levers still remain at Westminster 🙁

WSC
Guest

These “macro economic” powers we need (creation and circulation of money) actually rest with private commercial banks, not any democratic government. A Welsh government does have the power to create and issue its own currency in the same way that a community (LETS) or corporation (Nector points, Air Miles, etc. ) has. The only thing stopping us is ignorance and inertia.

Red Dragon Jim
Guest
Red Dragon Jim

That doesn’t sound anything like Catalonia though. We should be open to unorthodox and new financial approaches, but also mention the actual nature of Catalonia’s history. Its economic prosperity was built up over a period of more than a century, from inside the Spanish and later European markets, inside the currency zones of Spain and later the EU. Several decades of stable and competent nationalist rule helped massively. Catalonia easily has a strong a linguistic case for independence as we do. We should support them and draw inspiration, but we shouldn’t draw confusing or incorrect analyses. One analysis we can… Read more »

leigh richards
Guest

With respect wsc the Welsh government certainly does not presently have the powers to create our own international recognised currency. We’ll only be able to do that when we’ve secured independence for Wales

CambroUiDunlainge
Guest
CambroUiDunlainge

I think crypto currency offers a way to circumvent that all that before Independence.

Sibrydionmwar
Guest
Sibrydionmwar

Does it actually need to be internationally recognised though? Is the Bristol Pound recgnised anywhere else than in Bristol? The whole reason local currencies exist is to boost the local economy by having a currency that is limited in use to that locality. So why not a Welsh pound that can only be spent in Wales?

leigh richards
Guest

Social credit eh? Does that mean we can expect you to start railing against ‘usury’ and ‘the jews’ and to begin quoting that notorious anti semite and admirer of European fascism ezra pound?

Eos Pengwern
Guest
Eos Pengwern

In saying that prosperity should come first, before independence, you are 100% correct. That’s why it’s such a tragedy that the first 20 years of devolution have been squandered by a sclerotic Labour administration that can’t resist interfering in every aspect of the economy, bloating the public sector and (to an even greater extent) the Third Sector and sapping the energy of the business sector which is the only part of the economy capable of delivering actual growth and prosperity. The tone was set with the abolition of the WDA shortly after devolution began, and things have gone downhill since… Read more »

WSC
Guest

Both Left and Right wings of the political party spectrum get something out of debt-based economies. Contrived money scarcity (austerity) delivers power to socialist governments to socially engineer through public spending (welfare, grants, 3rd sector, etc.). The deregulation of the financial sector (which really got going in the 80’s under Thatcher) called neo-liberalism fits well with Right-wing ideology championing free markets as the most efficient road to prosperity. What both sides of the spectrum miss is the fact that by ‘liberating’ the financial sector they have allowed the virtual enslavement of the industrial sector, the real economy, us, in debt.… Read more »

daffy2012
Guest

I’m sure that what it is is that they are such committed Unionists that to allow Wales be economically successful might threaten that Union they so hold dear. But to be successful we actually have to compete with our English overlords by varying taxes such as APD, income and corporation taxes. Why would a company move to west Wales……a few hours from enormous population centres if taxation levels are equal. The Irish have shown how it’s done. I’m not sure if Plaid are too keen on such powers although I’ve heard Adam Price mention the need for corporation tax powers… Read more »

Red Dragon Jim
Guest
Red Dragon Jim

Plaid are definitely keen on having the tax powers but the fact you weren’t sure shows they aren’t getting it across!

I believe that APD and corporation tax are off limits according to the British state.

Chris
Guest
Chris

Hmm, Being a Welsh man, although living in England now, spent 50/50 of my life in Wales and England. But Im Welsh!! My concerns are, what does Wales Export? (Similarly, what does England Export?) Why would Wales want independence? Could Wales really manage independently of the rest of the UK? I am a firm remain er with regards to the EU vote. I can see the benefits of EU funding that has been spent in Wales, and before anyone says, buy we pay £350,000,000 a week, If we did not pay that, how much do you really thing the British… Read more »

Edeyrn
Guest
Edeyrn

Chris the closer power and material/land ownership is to people……the greater their ability is to create wealth…and hopefully the communities will be more sustainable as wealth is better reinvested and retained (obviously this isnt saying we cant help poorer areas of the world out – this isnt isolationist rhetoric)

Wales should be self ruling for many reasons, including being an ignored periphery….if Cumbria extra want more power as a periphery…so be it….no worries

CambroUiDunlainge
Guest
CambroUiDunlainge

Electricity. We’re net exporters and we actually pay more than our counterparts in England. We need to be able to nationalise our electricity production, get batteries fitted in peoples homes to mimic an electrical grid of our own then charges companies for buying the excess (we currently donate our electricity to the national grid for free – how kind of us). If we control our electricity we can lower the prices and offer manufacturing and other energy consumers to set up shop here. Least thats a start! Obviously continue to develop our production ability with tidal lagoons to keep up… Read more »

WSC
Guest

Central to the USA’s rise into a world power in the 20th century was the fact that basic infrastructure was public infrastructure, paid for and maintained by public funds. The reduced cost in ‘doing business’ gave it a competitive advantage. If our basic infrastructure, including electricity, water, telecommunications, etc. were nationalised (i.e. owned by everyone collectively), we too would enjoy reduced costs and competitive advantage. Neo-liberal nonsense promotes the fictionalisation of everything, leading to private monopolies amassing wealth through rent seeking. This pretty much sums up New Labour’s ‘third way’ and their PFI madness. (We now ‘rent’ many of our… Read more »

Red Dragon Jim
Guest
Red Dragon Jim

I would not support privatising any more public utilities, but the idea that massive nationalisations are possible or affordable needs to be challenged. I did not support privatisation at the time by the way, but once they are gone it’s too late to nationalise without vast costs. Why would Wales want to saddle itself with vast on-balance sheet costs? The assets of Dwr Cymru, British Gas and BT are worth billions even here alone. These casual solutions are not actually a goer, and were also wrong when Corbyn suggested them. There aren’t easy socialist answers to any of this, although… Read more »

John Young
Guest
John Young

Chris. Many people have explained the true situation in regard to whether or not Wales could fund itself as an Independent Country. The answer is yes.

When the full amount of tax paid in Wales is taken into account, when the billions that are spent in England but included as Welsh Expenditure are removed from the equation and when you consider the billions which Wales wouldn’t spend as an Independent Country (at least £1.5 billion from the Welsh ‘bill’ for the armed forces as an example) then the answer you are left with is yes, Wales can.

And should.

Edeyrn
Guest
Edeyrn

Why not use the word “Self rule” instead of independence by the way? There is no such thing as 100% true state independence in 2017, even North Korea is pressured somewhat by the actions of China and Russia……..

……self rule in a connected caring world has a nice idealist ring to it

Oh dear
Guest
Oh dear

Yes Cymru did not have a view, position on Brexit. It still doesn’t as they are split on Brexit.

Red Dragon Jim
Guest
Red Dragon Jim

Who cares? Be open to both sides. There’s far too much uncertainty to know what will happen.

Red Dragon Jim
Guest
Red Dragon Jim

“Independence in Britain” outside of the EU is not my view. I am a Remainer. And support for an independent Wales increases when it is tied to Remaining in the EU. As it does when it is tied to stopping a Conservative government ruling over Wales.

But if Brexit does finally happen, I am not going to say “you’ve turned your back on me!” I can see that independence outside the EU would be better than UK rule outsise the EU. I would be mature at that point and accept a new approach.

Let us see how this one pans out.

Capitalist and Welshnash
Guest
Capitalist and Welshnash

Our obligations to our country never cease but with our lives. – John Adams

Efnisien fab Euroswydd
Guest
Efnisien fab Euroswydd

This Plaid attempt at damning Neil McEvoy with faint praise will not work. I was there, and the fringe event was anything but underwhelming. It was positive, and clearly a starting point for a discussion. As for it being a ‘barely-veiled’ pitch for the leadership, what does the poor guy have to do? He’s categorically said he doesn’t want to be leadership; repeatedly reasserts that his future is with Plaid; constantly encourages people to join; and is nowhere near as shifty-looking as Rhun ap Iorwerth or Simon Thomas. Which of those two, I wonder, is behind the constant suggestions to… Read more »

Efnisien fab Euroswydd
Guest
Efnisien fab Euroswydd

*doesn’t want to be leadER !

Nisien fab Euroswydd
Guest
Nisien fab Euroswydd

I disagree, Adam Price’s approach was much more apt towards creating a nationalist movement and moving Cymru forwards.

Chaos is not good. People die. We need unity and something to come together over, to put ourselves towards without chaos as a boon.

McEvoy is not currently in Plaid. If he returns lets do include him, but a fringe meeting by someone who has been kicked because of alleged bullying out does not determine the Party’s direction. I used the word alleged. No more chaos, lets come together.

Efnisien fab Euroswydd
Guest
Efnisien fab Euroswydd

Love the name, if a little lacking in imagination.

McEvoy is in Plaid, actually. He’s a member and leader of Plaid on Cardiff Council. He’s just not in the Assembly group.

We do indeed need unity, which is unachievable under the current leadership. See Llanelli for details.

The bullying is all Plaid’s at the moment.

Efnisien fab Euroswydd
Guest
Efnisien fab Euroswydd

I’ve replied to this once. Is Ifan starting to censor this website? Would be consistent with the behaviour of Leannites in general.

Love the name, though lacking in originality.

Acutally, Neil is a member of Plaid. Not only is he a member, he’s also the leader of the Plaid group on Cardiff Council.

The only bullying occurring is against Neil McEvoy. I would contend. In my opinion. Allegedly. Etc.

Nisien fab Euroswydd
Guest
Nisien fab Euroswydd

Let us seek moderation in place of bickering, and a middle path between socialism and capitalism, so that our Welsh-speaking culture in its precarious fragility, a struggle far more important than independence, may nourish strength and grow. What are we fighting for? I care nothing for an independent Cymru where English is the de facto language by default, as has happened in Ireland, and I would fight against it until my dying day. And what better way to fight against it than to prevent needless bickering within Plaid Cymru? Casting people into the pejorative ‘ite’ category… Blairites, Leannites, it does… Read more »

CambroUiDunlainge
Guest
CambroUiDunlainge

You are aware Welsh identity transcends language yes? You are aware that the majority of people in Wales are probably to some degree Nationalists and only English speaking, yes? Your focus on the Welsh-speaking nation rather than the Welsh people is quite concerning.

leigh richards
Guest

CambroUiDunlainge makes a good point. I would also point out to you Nisien fab Euroswydd that your seeming disdain for our friends in the irish republic is wholly undeserved. The Irish waged a long and brave struggle against the british state in order to gain their independence. And with regards to the Irish language i would remind you that the irish constitution – celebrating its 80th anniversary in December – states that Irish Gaelic is the official language of the Irish republic. While the last census showed the numbers of irish gaelic speakers had increased by 7 percent – over… Read more »

CambroUiDunlainge
Guest
CambroUiDunlainge

Unfortunately Ireland faces many of the same issues we do through parroted teaching of Gaelic and a lack of depth in pro-Irish history – they have an element as we do who see no point to learning Gaelic because they are not taught enough about their heritage in a positive light to feel that connection with it. So in regards to modern day Imperialism they are in a few ways still a colonised people by mindset. Its important to remember that in regards to census records many people state they know a language fluently when they actually do not.

leigh richards
Guest

Admin you surely cannot permit anonymous posters to libel people in this way on your website ? The allegation he/she makes against leanne in the above comment are despicable, and of course like all cowardly anonymous trolls he/she doesnt offer a scrap of evidence to support their outrageous claims. PS in keeping with this poster’s evident general ignorance he/she obviously doesnt know that leanne has learned welsh

glasiad
Guest
glasiad

I agree with you about the category. This in an opinion piece, not a news item. Maybe Ifan clicked the wrong box. We’ve all done it 😉

As for your statement “Wales is dying slowly, by a thousand cuts.” I’m afraid I have to agree. The next few years will determine our fate I believe. If we continue to do what we have always done, at least politically, we are finished.

Royston Jones
Guest

Aled says there’s a meeting in Aberystwyth this weekend, but it has in fact been changed to an invitation-only meeting on the 18th. Explained here http://jacothenorth.net/blog/new-party-fresh-start-4-back-track/

Wales's future in Welsh hands
Guest
Wales's future in Welsh hands

If we continue to use the argument – Wales isn’t strong enough to succeed independently – we’ll never be independent. So we must be brave ! However, we need the security of being in the Single Market to do so successfully. The EU may not be perfect but for the prosperity and security of all Europeans it needs to succeed and Wales should be helping to reform it for the better.

Efnisien fab Euroswydd
Guest
Efnisien fab Euroswydd

“If we continue to use the argument – Wales isn’t strong enough to succeed independently – we’ll never be independent…we need the security of being in the Single Market.”

I can’t stop laughing. The cognitive dissonance of spineless Welsh nationalists.

Of course we can do it without the EU and the Single Market. We may choose to join the single market (if we’re accepted) but we don’t have to. And we certainly wouldn’t want to surrender our sovereignty by joining the euro – we’ll end up like Greece.

Red Dragon Jim
Guest
Red Dragon Jim

Pulling Wales out of the European Single Market is a terrible idea.

Wales's future in Welsh hands
Guest
Wales's future in Welsh hands

With regards to the EU – We have never lost our sovereignty !!! – By leaving the EU Wales will cut it’s nose off to spite it’s face ! If we are to succeed as an independent nation we need the best economic situation possible, leaving the biggest economic market on the planet doesn’t qualify as being the best economic way forward ! This “We can do trade deals with every other country” is just living in cloud cuckoo land. To prove a point – just look at the recent trade mission to India !

leigh richards
Guest

With two thirds of welsh exports going to the eu single market the so called ‘hard brexit’ being advocated by some of the more deranged europhobes – like jacob rees mogg and the cardiff based patrick minford – would certainly be a disaster for the welsh economy. It would mean costly tariffs on welsh exports to the single market and lengthy delays at customs 🙁

Red Dragon Jim
Guest
Red Dragon Jim

Yes. It is genuinely a terrible idea. Catalonia is not proposing to leave the EU, let alone the Single Market. The integration of Catalonia’s economy into Europe is even more than ours. It is also a successful integration, making Catalonia one of the world’s most promising economies, highly connected to France and Germany. Wales has a poorer position but alot to lose. All of the surviving manufacturing of goods here is either sold to Europe, or sustained by ‘bridghead’ North American investment into the Single Market. No doubt the Welsh response will be to mumble about co-operatives. If we are… Read more »

Cymru Rydd
Guest

I’m grateful to Ifan for publishing my blog- although it was slightly curtailed because of space considerations.. Just an additional point or two from the section that was left out to flesh out my arguments: I’m convinced that the Welsh National Movement over the years has not really addressed the point that for most people in Wales, connections with the rest of mainland Britain are more important than links to Europe. The narrative we should be relating to the people of Wales post Brexit is: Look this gives us the opportunity be an independent nation, running our country according to… Read more »

CambroUiDunlainge
Guest
CambroUiDunlainge

On your point about keeping cultural and social ties with the rest of Britain: Problem there is Westminster won’t take kindly to us leaving. They’ll meddle and make things difficult. One aspect of the Brexit split was that divides formed in families and because of the way the pro-EU media portrayed Leavers… well yeah. Imagine the multitude of ways the Unionist media will portray us for leaving the UK. They’ll call our history anti-English and all sorts. It will make a them and us environment. I just cannot imagine a situation where it will be amicable enough to maintain ties… Read more »

Jim
Guest
Jim

Good article. I was a Remainer but the EU has been exposed in Catalunya as a club for the big boys. And that aside we need to accept that there was a vote to leave, and we need to let nature take it’s course. If things get worse for us in Wales post-Brexit the only thing we will have left to blame is the Union; outside of that we need to forge our own course in the world on the basis of strategic alliances which could as much be within the British Isles as with other smaller or larger nations… Read more »

Red Dragon Jim
Guest
Red Dragon Jim

Though Catalonia wants to stay in the EU!

CapM
Guest
CapM

The EU referendum enabled British nationalism to flex it’s muscles and it did so in Cymru also. Many people who identify themselves as Welsh, notably in post industrial south Wales used their Leave votes to express their Britishness. As a nation I think this meant that we took a backward step away from independence and the already huge task of promoting and convincing has been made more difficult. Whatever the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, (even calling the whole thing off) I think we can expect to see a stepping up of project UK from all the usual suspects that… Read more »

Jonathan Edwards
Guest
Jonathan Edwards

EU as club for the big boys Fact- 14 of the 28 States have populations of under 10m people. 7 are smaller than Wales. EU is anti breakaway states – lets not be naive. It is not going to come out fighting to break up the UK or Spain or the Federal Republic of Germany, is it now? What matters is, when the Catalunyas or Scotlands have broken away, as self-governing states, will the individual countries of the EU then recognise them? Well it happened with the Czech/Slovak velvet divorce. Slovenia was fine. They are not going to slam the… Read more »