Opinion

Dear Welsh politics: Political point scoring after a terrorist attack isn’t a good look

18 Aug 2017 3 minutes Read
Picture: National Assembly (CC BY 2.0)

 

Ifan Morgan Jones

Leanne Wood has been criticised by the Conservatives and UKIP for a Twitter comment calling ISIS ‘far-right’ following yesterday’s terrible attacks in Barcelona that left 14 dead.

Leanne Wood did do something wrong here, which was to speculate on the nature of a terrorist attack before the police confirmed the details.

Doing so always leaves you open to accusations of attempting to make political capital out of a tragic event. As a seasoned politician, she should know better.

For that, she may want to apologise, although it’s unlikely that it was her intent.

But the Conservative and UKIP’s criticism go beyond what would seem reasonable in such circumstances:

  • The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives,  Andrew RT Davies, said it was “unbelievable” that Wood had said that it might be linked to a far-right group.
  • AM Janet Finch-Saunders suggested that Leanne Wood should resign as Plaid Cymru party leader.
  • UKIP called the tweet a ‘smear’.

First of all, it’s unclear why UKIP and the Conservatives have a problem with Leanne Wood calling ISIS ‘far-right’.

Surely they don’t consider themselves to be far-right, so who exactly is being slandered by this association?

Being a conservative and far-right are two very different things, like being a socialist and being Stalin.

Calling ISIS ‘far-right’ would seem to be a pretty accurate description. Here are some of the things they believe in:

  • They believe in the suppression of any groups that disagree with their vision
  • They revere powerful military leaders
  • They glorify violence
  • They are ultraconservative in their attitudes to people’s rights
  • They are ultraconservative in attempting to recreate a society dating from hundreds of years ago
  • They want to upend the established order and create a new society in its place

They are fascists. Their ideology isn’t that different from the Nazis, although they would consider themselves to be on opposing sides.

And since fascists are usually called ‘far-right’ I’m not sure why Leanne Wood’s comments were especially controversial.

It’s not clear what the point of this sustained criticism of Leanne Wood is, beyond the kind of political point scoring the Plaid Cymru leader is being accused of.

This is, of course, all going on in the aftermath of a terrorist attack that has killed 14 and left many more injured.

Perhaps all involved should step back and think about the bigger picture.

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Angharad
3 years ago

I don’t think she mentioned ISIS? This was more likely a reference to the far right attack in Charlottesville.
Whilst speculation by public figures is probably not a good idea in such circumstances, in the heat of the moment it is difficult not to get caught up in the emotion of the situation. The public expectation is for a swift response from politicians; little time to consult on the right form of words.
You really have to wonder why those who protested did so. If they considered it a personal attack, they should be examining themselves.

kim erswell
kim erswell
3 years ago

Leanne, asks the question – “Is this more right wing terrorism?” No, Leanne, like all recent terrorist attacks in Europe it was carried out by Muslim Islamic terrorists.I mean that isn’t hard to reason. Like the National socialist Nazis they lean more towards the left.

Rob
Rob
3 years ago
Reply to  kim erswell

Don’t embarrass yourself, mate.

A Gog
A Gog
3 years ago
Reply to  Rob

Oh dear Kim, go and have a lie down, as you obviously haven’t a clue.

Dafis
Dafis
3 years ago
Reply to  kim erswell

Islamo-fascists – ISIS – AQ – et al. Same thing different gang names. For once, if Leanne actually said it in so many words, it’s O.K by me. As for Tories and UKIP, as “right wing” as they are willing to own up to, but harbouring some nasty smelly extreme deviants within their folds. By the way, to revert to critical mode, all this Right wing / Left wing nonsense is pretty outdated distinction. There is much more to defining extremism than a singular linear model. Try 3D and you’ll find that extreme left and extreme right are cheek by… Read more »

leigh richards
3 years ago
Reply to  kim erswell

how is your friend tommy robinson these days kim? By the way your twitter feed makes very interesting reading 🙂

A Gog
A Gog
3 years ago

Leanne asked a question!!

glasiad
glasiad
3 years ago

Using the exact same label [far right] to describe the terrorists in Barcelona as she does her political opponents in the Assembly, Leanne used real people’s tragedy for political point scoring. It was both sloppy and dishonest. So what’s wrong with using acts of Islamic terrorism to score points back home, you ask? How low can you go? I ask. This whole fiasco pretty much sums up current politicians in their bubble world, preferring slagging matches and name calling to open, honest and rational debate about the issues that need to be debated. UKIP’s and the Conservatives “we’re so deeply… Read more »

Angharad
3 years ago
Reply to  glasiad

What if she’d said “fascist” or “nazi” in place of “far right”? Would that have made it acceptable?
To most people, these are the same thing.
And if she calls “UKIP” far right, I’m with her. I’d happily extend it to “fascist”, at least for some of them.

glasiad
glasiad
3 years ago
Reply to  Angharad

You are clearly part of the problem “preferring slagging matches and name calling to open, honest and rational debate” …

Angharad
3 years ago
Reply to  glasiad

“Name calling” is calling people things in order to insult them. For example, “idiot” or “stupid”.
Believing someone is fascist and/or far right, and saying so, is not name calling. It is simply using the adjectives one thinks most appropriate.
In a debate, this will give the opponent a clear view of the person’s standpoint, and provide a basis for discussion.

I believe there are large fascist elements in UKIP. That’s really not name calling. That’s a statement of opinion.

Radek
Radek
3 years ago
Reply to  glasiad

Not all far righters are terrorists!! She never accused Farage of being a terrorist and he shouldn’t feel accused. You can commit terrorism for the sake of different causes. Just as you can espouse the most heinous views but never commit terrorism in their name.

Ioan Gealy
Ioan Gealy
3 years ago

I’m a member of Plaid and a fervent Welsh nationalist but Leanne Wood makes my skin crawl! She is the queen of the loony left and needs to get out of politics pronto!

Capitalist and Welshnash
Capitalist and Welshnash
3 years ago

Im on the centre-right in the political spectrum and have no qualms with what Leanne Wood has said. People who do might want to consider how far-right their views actually are.

Aled Jedley
Aled Jedley
3 years ago

I voted for Leanne six years ago and I’ve always got on well with her but her tweet is completely unacceptable. She has described the Tory government as far-right, she has described UKIP as far-right and she has, perplexingly, described a Hard Brexit as far-right. None of which is true. But to equate the terrorists in Barcelona with the far-right is is unacceptable.

Go now, Leanne. Adam Price has my vote – in fact anyone but McEvoy would be better than loony lefty Leanne.

Angharad
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

Personally, I’d go along with 2½ of the 3 you mention.

Eli Parry
Eli Parry
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

You voted for her six years ago and yet you still use terms like ‘loony lefty’, as if she had just randomly espoused views of social justice at some random point since then. Maybe you should think and research before voting, mate.

Aled Jedley
Aled Jedley
3 years ago
Reply to  Eli Parry

I’d known Leanne for years before she stood for the leader. As a Welsh nationalist and long-time Plaid activist I preferred her to DET and Elin Jones. Her descent into the dead end of identity politics hasnt’t come as a surprise to me BUT feminist, gender and racial politics are far more prominent now than they were six years ago as the Cultural Marxists have successfully infiltrated the highest levels of “western” politics, media and business. Leanne must feel validated and powerful – just read her replies on her Facebook page. Here is the dictionary.com definition of fascism: “1. (sometimes… Read more »

Martin
Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

Isn’t “Cultural Marxist” a right-wing conspiracy theory term?

You’re swallowing nonsense peddled by people who don’t have your interests at heart. If you really know her, contact her civilly. Ask for her views. She would probably respond.

sibrydionmawr
3 years ago
Reply to  Martin

I’d be interested to hear why Leanne Wood is a ‘trillion percent’ better than Neil McEvoy. He may not be the most diplomatic of politicians, but he is just what Plaid needs, someone who is prepared to hold Labour to account.

leigh richards
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

“Two men have been successfully prosecuted – one of them imprisoned – for saying nasty things about Leanne. She is in the vanguard of the New Fascism” Nasty things??? For goodness sake one of them threatened to rape her and the other threatened to shoot her. These were absolutely despicable crimes which you should unreservedly condemn – yet you not only attack the victim of these crimes you also bizarrely accuse her of being a ‘fascist’ for seeking protection from the law from such horrific online abuse.

Aled Jedley
Aled Jedley
3 years ago
Reply to  leigh richards

“Sticks and stones may break me bones but names will never hurt me.” I’ve had people threatening to kill me in real life – bullies, muggers, robbers, hooligans. I’ve been physically attacked many times. Thus is what happens to men – they are considerably more likely to be murdered or assaulted than are women. And guess what? No one has ever been convicted of assaulting me, despite five separate police investigations into various assaults. The police have different priorities now – like policing social media to root out political incorrectness. Leanne has called the Tories, UKIP and Brexit far-right. To… Read more »

sibrydionmawr
3 years ago
Reply to  leigh richards

@ Aled Jedley – if by CP you mean Communist Party, then you seem a tad out of touch. I don’t know if you caught it, but communism pretty much collapsed in the early 90s, and though there are still a few ‘communist’ parties in the UK, none of them is exactly big, indeed, they are miniscule and hardly influential and more likely to attend a Plaid Cymru course than the other way around. Communist parties in the UK are impoverished. Most former communists moved on and became members of left of centre parties, including Plaid Cymru, and in general,… Read more »

leigh richards
3 years ago
Reply to  leigh richards

“”Sticks and stones may break me bones but names will never hurt me” writes aled jedley. Er being threatened with rape isn’t being called a ‘name’ – just ask any of the thousands of women who are subject to such terrifying threats every year. Your attempt to trivialize such a serious crime is sickening.

Aled Jedley
Aled Jedley
3 years ago
Reply to  leigh richards

By CP I mean Common Purpose. Of course Cultural Marxusm is real, it is as real as Crtitical Theory or the Frankfurt School. I’ve got two social science degrees so the assertion that I picked it up from a website is laughable. I’m not left wing or tight wing – the terms are ridiculous. I believe in live and let live but I disagree with the constant promotion of LGBT+ lifestyles, white guilt and multiculturalism. I’m a member of Plaid who wants Wales to be independent of the UK and EU. The intellectual pygmies braying their sheep line mantra of… Read more »

Radek
Radek
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

Not all far righters are terrorists!! She never accused Farage of being a terrorist and he shouldn’t feel accused. You can commit terrorism for the sake of different causes. Just as you can espouse the most heinous views but never commit terrorism in their name.

Martin
Martin
3 years ago

Describing IS as far-right is fine. It’s what they are.

But it’s a red rag to a bull for people who have otherwise been labelled far-right. The kind of thing that has been done to Welsh nationalists for years.

David Martyn Bevan
David Martyn Bevan
3 years ago

Isis ideology is Fascist, Alt right ideology is Fascist. Fascist terrorism is “far right terrorism”. It’s not hard to work out. Nazis lean more towards the left? What a joke!

Al
Al
3 years ago

The tweet was a complete embarassment. A period of due reflection would surely be a good thing for a leader of a political party after such an atrocity: why on earth do they have to reach for the twitter immediately? It’s just insane. Leanne’s tweet is shocking in its basic lack of understanding of the threat now facing us in the West. It’s just a knee-jerk left wing response in order to make cheap political points. ISIL are no more far-right as they are far-left. . They are completely beyond the usual political labels: they are a medieval death cult… Read more »

Communist & WelshNash
Communist & WelshNash
3 years ago

It appears that since Rhun ap Iorwerth’s chess move on the Eisteddfod field that all in opposition to Leanne Wood’s leadership are looking for an opportunity to undermine her. Somebody, anybody tweeting is not really news unless the person tweeting is a high profile politician. Donald Trump shouldn’t be on Twitter but he is. Would it be fair to call him far right after his inability to condemn the white supremacists in Charlottesville? With the Left and the Right now sabre rattling world events are warming up to a major conflict between these two polarities. ISIL will then be able… Read more »

Capitalist and Welshnash
Capitalist and Welshnash
3 years ago

I think Leanne Wood has been an excellent political party leader. She could do with being more of a centrist than a pure-crusading socialist, but I can understand the socio-economic and political environment of the Rhondda in which such an economically confrontational viewpoint would be formed. I do not think this is the time to step down; she should not allow words of slander by British Nationalists determine the course of her party. If anything, she should focus on re-strengthening her position, stabilising her immediate circle, and uniting people in a non-confrontational manner, so that Plaid may move towards a… Read more »

Royston Jones
Royston Jones
3 years ago

Leanne Wood was shamelessly using Barcelona to keep up the attacks on Trump and Brexit, those obsessions of an embittered and frustrated Left

A Gog
A Gog
3 years ago
Reply to  Royston Jones

So we know it’s not the Left, but please advise who are doing these atrocities Royston? I’m keen on your response, but please don’t say ISIS.

glasiad
glasiad
3 years ago
Reply to  A Gog

Political Islam has more in common with the far left than the far right – in that it makes claims to having a Truth to which everyone must accept – or face the consequences of being a dissenter (usually not good).

Capitalist and Welshnash
Capitalist and Welshnash
3 years ago
Reply to  glasiad

Am interesting and insightful take on how the economic Left may often take shape in a self-righteous and puritanically sanctimonious form, Glasiad.

Royston Jones
Royston Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  A Gog

Do you want to have another go at the question?

D. Maitland
D. Maitland
3 years ago
Reply to  Royston Jones

So says an obsessed, embittered and frustrated right winger who has been shamelessly retweeting the hateful posts of European neo nazis. It was too late to delete it Jac o’ the North.

Jac o' the North
3 years ago
Reply to  D. Maitland

I have no intention of deleting any tweet. Are you referring to what I dealt with in my latest post? Are you @Wales4Europe? http://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-escapist-politics/

Royston Jones
Royston Jones
3 years ago
Reply to  D. Maitland

I take it you’re referring to the single retweet of the words of Viktor Orban, for which I will not apologise to you or anyone else.

Gareth
Gareth
3 years ago

There were people lying dead on a pavement while she was tweeting this.
How on earth did she think it was a good idea?

JD
JD
3 years ago

She needs to go. This was crass, insensitive and tasteless. Hwyl fawr Leanne!

Red Dragon Jim
Red Dragon Jim
3 years ago

The Kurds call themselves anti-fascists because they are up against these type of people.

It’s hate. Hate of gay people. Hate of Jews. Hate of women. Hate of democracy. Leanne Wood is right to point that out.

glasiad
glasiad
3 years ago

This article on Spiked magazine helps explain Leanne’s response to Islamic terrorism. Rarely has the hypocrisy of the West’s ostensible liberals and leftists been as violently exposed as it has been this week … http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/from-charlottesville-to-barcelona/

Thomas Moseley
3 years ago

What a load of rubbishy comments! No wonder the nationalist cause goes nowhere in Wales: at the slightest provocation we fight amongst ourselves. Leanne Wood’s comment was harmless and undeserving of the harsh criticisms levelled at it. The only criticism I have is for her use of the meaningless terms far left and far right; but who cares? She has been an excellent, energetic leader of Plaid Cymru which like most political parties is an alliance of persons with differing political views. I do not agree with everything she advocates, and neither would she agree with every opinion I hold;… Read more »

Trailorboy
Trailorboy
3 years ago
Reply to  Thomas Moseley

I sense there’s a new political game in town and it’s not looking very friendly.

Angharad
3 years ago
Reply to  Thomas Moseley

I quite agree. Except, of course, I wish you’d excluded my comments from your first sentence! 🙂
(and I still think the terms “left” and “right” have some merit but I think I know where you’re coming from)

CambroUiDunlainge
CambroUiDunlainge
3 years ago
Reply to  Thomas Moseley

Very dismissive about others views… maybe we could even label what you’ve said as intolerant… see where I’m going with this?

Jonesy
Jonesy
3 years ago

Leanne should get off twitter and facebook some of her pronouncements are dead embarrassing for a party leader. Like other politicians she thinks she has to emote, rage or condemn issues that are current/ on trend without taking time out to think and which are nothing to do with them as they usually live 1000s of miles of away. It’s just jumping on some bandwagon. Yep I can go online and say “my heart is with the people of Sierra Leone tonight ” what bloody good will that do them? Anyway obvs not trendy to empathise with SL as not… Read more »

Tame Frontiersman
Tame Frontiersman
3 years ago

Good

Ofnadwy/terrible. My thoughts are with all those affected

(Sometimes less is more).

Better

Ofnadwy/terrible. Mis pensamientos están con los afectados

Best

Ofnadwy/terrible. Els meus pensaments estan amb els afectats

Cymru Rydd
Cymru Rydd
3 years ago

What if we had a nationalist leader in Wales , who instead of some pointless emoting said:” we have got to get to grips with this Islamist menace which is threatening all of us”.? “Our christian values and heritage in the West is under attack and there is no point beating about the bush any more. The moslem community have got to do more to weed out this blind intolerance in their midst, and we must do much more to ensure that their young men being led astray like this are afforded a more hopeful and positive vision for their… Read more »

Angharad
3 years ago
Reply to  Cymru Rydd

If we had such nationalist leader in Wales, I’d be looking for another party.

Having been personally at the wrong end of extremes in Christianity in the past, we have no moral right to be talking in such ways.

Aled Jedley
Aled Jedley
3 years ago
Reply to  Angharad

So are you in Plaid because you are a Welsh nationalist or because you are a “progressive”? It is “the Party of Wales” – there to protect the Welsh language and to push for Welsh independence. It doesn’t exist to protect or promote homosexuality, wimmin’s rights, gender rights or race relations. Labour and the LibDems can do all those things along with many “modern” Tories. If the “Party of Wales” is there to represent, err, the people of Wales then Leanne should be pushing for a smooth Brexit. Unfortunately, Plaid is riddled with agents of Brussels and Common Purpose graduates.… Read more »

henferch
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

Best comments ever. Thank god someone sees the bigger picture.

Martin
Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

More “common purpose” and “Soros” nonsense. These are alt-right conspiracies. You are almost certainly a person of intelligence I’d get along with in real life, but this stuff is a con trick.

sibrydionmawr
3 years ago
Reply to  Martin

Hmmm, ‘almost certainly’ gives room to wriggle!

Paul
Paul
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

I want to live in a tolerant Wales. One that promotes gay rights, women’s rights and trans rights.

I hope people like you aren’t leading the independence cause.

Leanne was nieve – hope she accepts that and moves on.

leigh richards
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

Um it may come as a huge shock to you but there are gay people in wales, there are women in wales and wales is home to people from many different nationalities and cultures – and being the left of center progressive party plaid is it rightly seeks to promote and enhance the rights of women and gay people and to defend people from racist attacks by neo nazi scumbags. Oh and it seeks to protect the welsh language and secure independence for wales too.Thankfully nobody shares your bigoted vision of wales save for the neo fascists of the welsh… Read more »

Eli Parry
Eli Parry
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

Plaid Cymru exists to represent the people of Wales, and to advance the cause of the people of Wales. “Wimmin”, as you derogatorily write, or women, as it should be correctly spelled, constitute over 50% of the people of Wales. I would therefore that embracing women’s rights should be key to Plaid Cymru’s aims, if we are to take all of our society towards independence. Plaid Cymru does not promote homosexuality – it is impossible to ‘promote’ homosexuality. You are born just as you are. Plaid Cymru accepts it as something completely normal, and fights for LGBT people’s rights to… Read more »

Trailorboy
Trailorboy
3 years ago

really sad to see what’s going on here. There is such a thing as a far right and there is such a thing as fascism and i don’t want an independent Wales that embraces those sorts of views. I would prefer to succumb to being Anglicised

Cymru Rydd
Cymru Rydd
3 years ago

But the whole nub of the argument here is this attempt to equate ISIS with the far-right which is just complete nonsense and an insult to our intelligence. It’s so obvious that this tweet sought to establish a political equivalence between the events in Charlottesville and the massacre in Barcelona. Of course, the far-right elements in charlotesville were completely odious and repugnant in their outright hatred for jews and black people. But these idiots do have a political agenda of sorts, whatever one may think of that agenda, i.e some form of white homeland in the south. Apparently, they want… Read more »

leigh richards
3 years ago
Reply to  Cymru Rydd

fascists abhor democracy, indiscriminately murder people, oppress women and hate gay people – isis abhors democracy,indiscriminately murders people, oppresses women and hates gay people. leanne’s point was well made! Also important to be aware – as you seem a bit confused on the matter – that isis are in no way representative of islam. To think that would be like thinking the kkk are representative of christians.

Aled Jedley
Aled Jedley
3 years ago
Reply to  leigh richards

Leanne – and Remainers – abhor democracy. They want to reverse the referendum result. Many gay people abhor straight people. Many dark skinned people abhor white skinned people. Many Muslims abhor Christians. Many “progressives” abhor people that aren’t “progressive” and want their voices shut down.

Red Dragon Jim
Red Dragon Jim
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

It’s not that people want your voice shut down. They just think you are wrong, or disagree with you.

sibrydionmawr
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

You seem to have an extremely weird take on democracy. Remainers do not abhor democracy, as they realise that democracy is a process, not an event. People should have a right to change their mind when they realise they may have made a wrong decision previously. It would be more accurate to suggest that it’s those who support Brexit are anti-democracy, in that they persistently try to undermine any attempt to democratise the Brexit process, fearing that another democratic vote would reverse the decision to leave the EU. Whilst I abhor people who are not progressive, but I would oppose… Read more »

CambroUiDunlainge
CambroUiDunlainge
3 years ago
Reply to  sibrydionmawr

The same could be said for any vote or referendum as far as changing their mind goes. But claiming enough people have changed their mind to warrant another referendum is where it starts to turn into a bit of a dubious statement. As is the statement that all Remainers have the same view on democracy, and to suggest all Brexiteer’s are anti-democracy. I’m sure it doesn’t go that deep with a lot of people on either side. Now those leading both sides… of course the losing side wants another vote (as the SNP wanted another referendum) and of course the… Read more »

leigh richards
3 years ago
Reply to  Aled Jedley

The poster hiding behind the pseudonym ‘aled jedley’ (‘allegedly’ geddit – yeah lame i know even by the dismal standards of far right trolls) makes a series of ludicrous assertions, for which of course there isn’t a scintilla of corroborating evidence. But to judge by his contributions to this threat it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assert he abhors gay people, he abhors muslims, he abhors what he calls ‘dark skinned people’ and – to judge by his comments elsewhere on this thread – he doesn’t care much for women either 🙁

sibrydionmawr
3 years ago
Reply to  leigh richards

I wonder what he really thinks of Welsh people too? He’s really quite sad. We should perhaps pity him.

Lyn Thomas
Lyn Thomas
3 years ago

I think I smell a media bandwagon, to dis Plaid and get Leanne. We should not fall for it. Isis is a deeply reactionary organisation, and by any reasonable analysis that puts it on the far right. If that is a lable that UKIP and sections of the Tory party want to embrace let them, but don’t attack someone for calling out what something is. As it was Barcelona is hosting a major gay event this week and it may have been premature to ask the question but it was a reasonable one, it wasn’t immediately apparent that this was… Read more »

Cymru Rydd
Cymru Rydd
3 years ago

Leigh: can I respectfully suggest that you also look up this book: “Heretic” by Ayyan Hirsi Ali? She categorically states that ISIS ARE representative of Islam! That is the essence of the problem here. This is a Muslim woman who has been brave enough to honestly confront the cancer at the heart of Islam: this unthinking devotion to a prophet Mohammed, a self-confessed pedophile, warlord and mass murderer. She says that the Koran has to be drastically revised. This ridiculous liberal idea that “Oh we can’t say that because it would hurt the sensibilities of Muslim communities” just infantilises this… Read more »

Harri Roberts
Harri Roberts
3 years ago
Reply to  NationCymru

You are correct – but it goes deeper doesnt it? Winston Churchill as well as Stalin was a mass murderer…. Mao Tse Tung allowed millions of ordinary people to perish in starvation in pursuit of his ideology… and LBJ in Viet Nam had Yankee bombers gassing innocent civilians…. By what standards do we judge? ISIS in Syria – or the Russians and Americans bombing there? FACT: Innocent people are dying and suffering because of terrorists and governments – its plain WRONG and we must get our voices heard to warn governments that they will fall unless they stop the murder… Read more »

daffy2012
3 years ago
Reply to  NationCymru

I don’t think however that tens of thousand of people in Wales pray to Owain Glyndwr and go and worship him in their churches and chapels on Sundays. He doesn’t provide them with a moral code with which to live their day to day lives. Of course, his bravery, cunning and tenacity against all odds has been an inspiration to generations of nationalists. You are correct in saying that the Old Testament is full of violence. One of it’s basic rules is ‘An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth’. However, the New Testament has been described as… Read more »

Jonesy
Jonesy
3 years ago
Reply to  Cymru Rydd

Just a historical point here, but up until tudor times most males would be classified as paedos by today,s standards, whatever culture they came from, as girls (of high birth) were married off as early as infancy. So I don’t think Mo was different to anybody else at that time,just like our welsh princes.

Martin
Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  Cymru Rydd

It’s just her (Ayan Hirsi ali) opinion though.

There is a settled, extant Muslim community in Wales that holds a different view.

CapM
CapM
3 years ago

Whatever anyone’s take on Leanne Wood’s tweet is, it has generated coverage in the UK press and media for her, Plaid Cymru and by association the aim of an independent Cymru.
Publicity that wouldn’t exist but for that tweet. The observation of some might be that it’s the “wrong” sort of publicity.
But the reality is that we’re never likely to get the “right” sort of publicity from a press and media that is united in it’s opposition to our independence from England.

Harri Roberts
Harri Roberts
3 years ago
Reply to  CapM

Wise comment – especially about the press…

Harri Roberts
Harri Roberts
3 years ago

A very good critique by Ifan Morgan Jones “Leanne Wood has been criticised by the Conservatives and UKIP for a Twitter comment calling ISIS ‘far-right’ following yesterday’s terrible attacks in Barcelona that left 14 dead. Ofnadwy / terrible. Is this more far right terrorism? My thoughts are with all those affected.https://t.co/REkCs6HNgy — LeanneWood (@LeanneWood) August 17, 2017″ other than I dont believe she did anything wrong – the political point-scoring is entirely by the Tories and UKIP (caught a raw nerve did she???) – they seem very protective of the “far right” … are they desperate to wear that label?… Read more »

Red Dragon Jim
Red Dragon Jim
3 years ago

It’s a bandwagon. The Mike Parker and Arfon Jones treatment.

han
han
3 years ago

She should apologise for speculating at the time without knowing the facts. Very irresponsible.

I don’t have much of a problem with her calling ISIS far right, i see her point. however it is overly simplifying things. I don’t think the left right axis is particularly helpful in describing these terrorists. Does she think there are far left terrorists? Was stalin far right or far left? Etc etc.

Red Dragon Jim
Red Dragon Jim
3 years ago
Reply to  han

Far-left terror was present in Italy and Germany decades ago.

Cymru Rydd
Cymru Rydd
3 years ago

A quick theological point to contest this argument that the Old Testament is also full of murderous violence. The Old Testament is superceded by Jesus: so Jesus is the final and definitive version of God for Christians. There’s no need to “revise” the Bible- as Jesus Christ has already revised it! Now compare that with Islam: where the devotees still worship Mohammed uncritically despite his murderous lifestyle. That’s why the Koran needs to be revised urgently. Mug up on any number of recent social surveys in the uk which display an ambivalence, and that’s putting it kindly, amongst an alarming… Read more »

Welsh and muslim
Welsh and muslim
3 years ago
Reply to  Cymru Rydd

New testament is full of peace and wisdom.

Muslim do not worship prophet muhammad PBUH. They submit to Allah only.

Koran is not read uncritically but is interpreted by each person. Has it got violence? Yes. Does that make all muslims violent? No.

Are muslims ambivalent? No. If we don’t condemn in the exact style others want, that doesn’t mean we are ambivalent or support evil.

Red Dragon Jim
Red Dragon Jim
3 years ago
Reply to  Cymru Rydd

The Muslim victims of IS don’t need to revise anything.

The majority of IS’ victims are Muslim (so far).

The majority of boots on the ground fighting them are Muslim. Some are atheist or Christian too.

They’re not thinking about revising the Quran. They’re thinking about stopping these fascists.

We’re in the same boat and they hate us too.

Welsh and muslim
Welsh and muslim
3 years ago

She made a right mess up. She gave the right more reason to tar all muslim as ISIS. She accidently called muslims nazis or islam fascist and made herself look impulsive and opportunist. As another thought, the ignorance of islam being shown is staggering and it’s all because of this kind of hysteria. Want to know about ISIS? Ask a muslim scholar or imam but be prepared to listen and not try and make it fit your own politics. It’s complicated and she has tried to simplify it. She had good intentions but it’s not helpful.

Lyn Thomas
Lyn Thomas
3 years ago

Correction Muslims do not worship Mohammed.

Cymru Rydd
Cymru Rydd
3 years ago

As a point of interest: here are the 4 amendments that Muslim Author Ayan Hirsi Ali suggests as part of the much needed Islamic Reformation: 1. All Muslim clerics need to forego the status of the Quran as the last and immutable word of God and the infallibilty of Muhammed as the last divinely inspired messenger. 2.They need to clearly move away from the overwhelming emphasis on the afterlife over the here and now. (Why do you think that so many young Muslim men are so willing to sacrifice themselves in these modern attacks in the West)? 3.Sharia law has… Read more »

Welsh and muslim
Welsh and muslim
3 years ago
Reply to  Cymru Rydd

Cymru Rydd you are more or less saying muslims must stop being muslims and then they will be acceptable in wales. Shocking.

Cymru Rydd
Cymru Rydd
3 years ago

Welsh and Muslim: your statement is a complete red herring.

The 4 amendments are not my sentiments:they have been made by an award-winning female Muslim.

Would you argue against them?

Martin
Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  Cymru Rydd

I’d imagine yes, he/she would. Number 1 would mean you are no longer a Muslim according to their faith.

sibrydionmawr
3 years ago
Reply to  Cymru Rydd

No, not Muslim as she no longer claims to be Muslim, and hasn’t done so since 2002.

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