To abolish or not to abolish? That is the question
Ethan Jones
There is increasing noise in the media calling for the end of Welsh Devolution. The abolition of the Senedd and the return of all its responsibilities to Westminster.
In short, everything that the Senedd is responsible for will be returned to Westminster and Wales will cease to exist in any political reality.
Cutting straight to the heart of the argument. Do you think Wales is a country or do you think Wales should be a region of England?
That is ultimately what is at stake here. If devolution ends, Wales will have no control of policy areas and will cease to exist in any political sense.
Support for abolition has dropped from 50% at its inception to regularly between 25-30% today. So in the near quarter century of Welsh devolution’s existence, its opponents have almost halved.
Why then is it being given such airtime?
Identity-crisis
The internal identity-crisis facing the Conservative Party is the short answer. The noise is coming from within the Welsh Conservatives, with a faction wanting the party membership to adopt the position of abolition.
Support amongst the party’s MS’ is low, which highlights what a terrible idea it would be; even Andrew RT Davies has dismissed it.
However, the new Tory leader is on record as supporting the end of devolution across the UK. Kemi Badenoch has previously stated that devolution “should be rolled back.”
Wales seems poised to become the testing ground for the latest thing the Tories want to abolish.
Unserious
The Conservatives in Wales are a deeply unserious party, which offers little in terms of an alternative direction for our nation. This stems from its top representative in Wales.
A fish rots from the head down.
Do they want to be a real alternative for the people of Wales? Or a party of ageing reactionaries that, rather than seeking to improve, seek to abolish every external institution going? Whether that be the EU, the ECHR or the Senedd.
Is that what the Tories are now reduced to?
In Wales, a hard-core fringe on the far right has carried the torch on abolition.
To put it in perspective, it has always been from parties further right than UKIP and its successors.
It still is, officially, with Nigel Farage having stated that the issue of devolution is settled. This is not to label all voters who support abolish as “far right,” merely to highlight that this is the position on the political spectrum that the parties who advocate it have been located.
In the run up to the 2021 Senedd Election, Abolish (Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party) were scandalously given a platform with the major parties in debates and interviews.
Abolish had zero elected representatives at any level at this time; their only representatives having defected after being elected under another party’s banner.
The party’s leader went on to perform terribly on this platform and was challenged over comments made about the Welsh language during one such televised debate.
Abolish went from being projected to win several seats by all pollsters to being firmly rejected with 4% of the vote and failed to win a single seat on the Proportional Representation lists. They’ve barely been heard from since. 96% of voters in 2021 did not want Abolish.
Winning strategy
Why then does a faction of Tories think this is going to be an election winning strategy?
An intense dislike of the Labour Party seems to be one of the absolute key drivers here.
A conversation with any supporter of abolition will inevitably come down to objections to Welsh Government policy, either actual or perceived.
Most voters in Wales don’t vote Labour, so the agency to change the Welsh Government is there.
The planned Senedd expansion will likely ensure it is incredibly difficult for Labour to outright win a majority in the foreseeable future.
Ironically, despite being vociferously opposed by abolitionists, it will likely see them given more of a platform and opportunity to shape things.
Statehood
For me, a dislike of the Labour Party is not a valid reason to advocate abolishing what little statehood Wales has. Seek to change the Senedd rather than, politically speaking, burn it down.
To some it is the belief that the Senedd poses a threat to the unity of the UK.
Support for independence is currently around the same as abolition. However, the key difference here is that support for independence has rocketed over the period of devolution, whilst abolition has severely decreased.
The demographic trends imply that support for abolition will fall significantly as the older generations shuffle off this mortal coil, whilst the younger generations lean more towards independence.
Take independence out of it for a second though, support for more devolution or to retain the status quo has a pretty unassailable super majority. It therefore seems to be a barmy hill for a faction of Conservatives to choose to make a stand on.
Even Nigel Farage and Andrew RT Davies have dismissed this idea as being a bit daft.
Referendum
However, I can see it from a British Nationalist view point. It is the fear that if the Senedd gained the same powers as Scotland there is a chance Wales too could build to having undeniable justification to hold a referendum. If you don’t view Wales as a “real” country, why should it have its own parliament? “We’re all British, we’re all one country with shared history” and all that.
I understand it and I don’t deny anybody the right to make their case for what they believe in.
I just happen to disagree with them and think abolishing ourselves as a country would be an epically disastrous situation to put ourselves in.
Anyone who thinks Wales is a country should oppose abolition as fully as they can.
A country with responsibilities, whether that be in the UK or not, or a county of England.
What would you prefer Wales to be?
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Yes, one party in power too long is the main issue.
Those in the Conservative party who are in favour of Wales to exist as a country with it’s own Senedd etc, should consider joining and/or supporting Gwlad.
You don’t need to be a conservative to join or support Gwlad. It’s open to all “positions” to contribute to debate our future. Without preconditions.
But what lies behind this antidemocratic almost animalistic instinct to revert to a highly centralised model of government that’s proven time and again to lead to terrible governance, most obviously when it killed a million citizens in Ireland. Ultimately, a strong Welsh identity is a constant reminder to the majority on this island that they are descended from Germanic migrants. And they hate immigrants.
Even some of the brighter minds in the British Establishment are questioning the over- centralisation of the UK. Central government has its beak into too many matters that could be devolved to the nations and the regions. Sam Freedmann in “Failed State” does a good job of describing the decline in effectiveness of central government. He avoids any discussion of independence but makes it clear that delegation through devolution is about the only way for UK to survive and recover any sustained ability to deliver public services. He is also highly critical of those horrendous attempts at farming out public… Read more »
I am a Welsh citizen, not an Empire subject. My nationality is Welsh. Where is my Welsh passport? Where is my basic human right to quote my nationality and have it recognised at any port I pass through? I can tell you this. It IS recognised in Dublin, Dun Laoghaire and Rosslare because Irish people get it. Our country cannot be abolished with 55% of us declaring ourselves ‘Welsh’ on the 2021 census forms. Some Empire fantasist will have to explain why we are still here over 600 years beyond our annexation and that’s an issue way too embarrassing to… Read more »
Most people accept the historic nationhoods of the peoples of these isles and respect the rights of each to self-government. There is a minority, who hold the a-historical and erroneous opinion that Britain is a nation. These people are usually cultural chauvinists, snobs, anglophiles, nationalists, imperialists or a combination thereof. Unfortunately, this minority tends to form the bulk of the Tory vote and thanks to FPTP are the tail that wags the UK dog. Why we allow this state of affairs to continue to exist is beyond me. Moreover why a puportedly left wing party decides to adhere to the… Read more »
Quote from article:
“Support for abolition has dropped from 50% at its inception to regularly between 25-30% today. So in the near quarter century of Welsh devolution’s existence, its opponents have almost halved.”
Although no evidence is cited, 75% either approve of devolution or don’t oppose it for whatever reason. Sounds OK to me in terms of legitimacy.
It would be interesting to see the comparable figures for the UK Parliament. Suspect they will not be dissimilar.
Expect to see more of this ‘we don’t like the policies, so let us blame the institution’ rhetoric from Tories and Reform people. It is classic Trumpism, and they will undoubtedly be boosted by his win in the US.
Imagine if they quit whining for just a moment and actually presented some Wales centric policies and made an effort to win a Senedd election. They don’t win because they’re perceived as anti-Welsh and useless. They need to get over themselves.
Quote: However, I can see it from a British Nationalist view point. It is the fear that if the Senedd gained the same powers as Scotland there is a chance Wales too could build to having undeniable justification to hold a referendum. If you don’t view Wales as a “real” country, why should it have its own parliament? “We’re all British, we’re all one country with shared history” and all that. Its a very narrow minded viewpoint for a British nationalist to have. Most Texans want to have complete autonomy from Washington, does that make them anti-American secessionists? Does any… Read more »
‘Most Texans want to have complete autonomy from Washington, does that make them anti-American secessionists?‘
Texas was one of the states that formed the Confederacy of sovereign and independent states so they have got form as anti-American secessionists.
‘Federalism works in US, Canada and Australia, so why not the UK?‘
See many past comments and quite a few articles in NationCymru.
Federalism exists in the US, Canada and Australia, ‘ works ‘ is a different matter. All these examples have widespread disparity between the component parts in terms of wealth [ poverty ] and power and influence. There is increasing questions, particularly in Canada and Australia regarding the benefits of the federal systems.. As pointed out in the articles and comments in Nation Cymru.
Remove democracy and right to self governance at your peril. Wales needs to get further away from the Joke that is the UK as quickly as possible.
Those who do not respect a countries right to determine its own affairs are free to leave at any time.
I believe that Wales is best represented as being part of the United Kingdom. Ireland wanted independence and gave it all away to be part of the EU. Scotland wants independence to become part of the EU. Neither would be able to create their own laws. Why would Wales be any different? No, born and bred in Wales, I want it to remain as part of the UK.
States in the EU have far more autonomy than the constituent nations of the UK. Furthermore they are Sovereign and have the right to leave it at any time.
But article is not about independence its about devolution.
“Ireland wanted independence and gave it all away”
Under Whitehall rule a million starved to death. Free from Whitehall rule they became the second richest country in the world.
The biggest obstacle to widespread support for the Senedd and Independence for Wales is the Labour Party. They have been in power for too long and are characterised by corruption, incompetence and a lack of ideas. As a result many in Wales feel the Senedd offers them nothing. A glance at the poor performance of the NHS, education, housing, public transport is testimony to that view