Welsh place name pronunciation: Let he without sin post the first comment
Stephen Price
Welsh social media users came out in force to criticise a BBC newsreader over her pronunciation Bannau Brycheiniog recently.
Catherine Byaruhanga, who was previously the BBC’s Africa correspondent, tripped up while reporting on the increase in the numbers of tourists visiting the “Instagrammable” national park back on 17 August.
Posting the clip online, a Facebook user quite rightly pointed out that the BBC has a pronunciation unit to assist their broadcasters to get it right, writing: “Did she miss the memo or was the pronunciation unit on their summer holidays at Dolygoloo or Betsi Co-ed?” he said. “This simply isn’t acceptable.”
Commenters piled in underneath, with one adding: “Would this happen if the location was in another country or the name wasn’t in Welsh?”
When one Facebook user suggested that the newsreader had ‘given it her best shot’, another replied: “Sorry, but ‘gave it her best shot’ might be ok if you are on holiday there but not if you are representing the UK’s national broadcaster on their news programme.”
Human after all
So, of course, the BBC has a duty to get things right, they’ve got their pronunciation unit after all. But, while fallible, imperfect humans still have jobs in the media, and while we have live television and ever-shrinking pools of money to play with, perfection can always be aimed for, but will never be reached.
Be it a typo, a tongue-tie or simply being a deer in headlights, people can and always will make mistakes.
I fall over my words all the time, and the risk is even greater when vocalising a word in an unfamiliar language.
Here in Wales, Welsh is familiar, and yet here we are, with pockets full of stones ready to throw which surely suggests we are all masters of our own place names. We must be, right? Judging by the number of people angered by Byaruhanga’s unintentional mispronunciation.
Facebook police
As much as it might grate, we can somewhat overlook the Aber-socks (Abersoch), Betsy Co-Eds (Betws y Coed) and Torffun-esque (Torfaen) pronunciations I’ve heard from visitors and simply roll our eyes.
Forgive them Father, for they have at least an excuse!
Much like a Catalonian must have to bite their tongue when we’re asking for directions to Santa Eulalia, Ciutadella and Cala Llonga, or an Englishman might be amused by my attempt to pronounce Marylebone or Cholmondeley, incorrect pronunciation in an unfamiliar land or language is par for the course.
So why are we not more forgiving of others when it comes to pronouncing Welsh place names when so many English speaking Welsh people all-too-often have absolutely no leg to stand on?
A few local examples, and some of the travesties I hear day-in day-out from natives include Musgwortha (Maes y Gwartha), Brimow (Brynmawr), Langa’uk (Llangattock/Llangatwg), Cuffily (Caerffili), Talguth (Talgarth), Gilwun (Gilwern), Langors (Llangors), Loony (Llwynu) Nanteeglow (Nantyglo), Mirthuh (Merthyr), …OK this could go on some time, I think you’re getting the point…
I grew up on a council estate called Haulfryn, but have I heard anyone besides myself call it anything but something-akin-to ‘Horle Ffrin’? I’m afraid I haven’t.
When viewing a house in the village above (Llanelly Hill – often pronounced Lanethly by the locals) I was asked where I grew up by the owner and informed him that I was local-ish, went to the local school and was moving up from Haulfryn.. If I did.
He looked at me as if I’d arrived freshly from the moon. “What? Horle Ffrin!?”
We left it there.
Hold my drink
One issue I battle with as a second language Welsh speaker (or ‘new speaker’) despite it being over 30 years now, is my impossible quest for perfection.
I stumble over sentences and replies despite knowing exactly what the other person has said.
Time and time again, however, I keep stressing the need to use the Welsh we have. Pause, chuck a bit of Wenglish in if need be, dal ati.
Imagine if native Welsh speakers pulled us up on every incorrect pronunciation when we’re trying our best. That wouldn’t get us anywhere.
To their credit, they’re also dignified in their silence when it comes to our pronunciation of our own Welsh place names. But, in the interests of fairness, I have no such dignity, so hold my drink!
Say it right
I wonder if those angered by a mispronunciation by a BBC News presenter roll the R in Pontypridd and Bannau Brycheiniog, pronounce the Rh of Rhondda and Rhossili, or know how to pronounce Rhyd Ddu, Llanfairfechan and Blaenwaun.
How come we aren’t so quick to pick our friends, neighbours and even ourselves up when we lazily pronounce our own place names in a way an accomplished and graceful BBC newsreader live-on-air dare not?
If we live here, we don’t have an excuse – especially the group-think ‘ah, I know it should be said this way but no one locally says that’ one.
So, of course, our publicly funded broadcasters should always pronounce our place names correctly. But it wouldn’t hurt us to be a little more kind and understanding when bloopers inevitably happen.
It wouldn’t hurt us, either, to walk our talk and say our own place names with a little more effort and reverence.
It might be a strange analogy, but before I felt cool and comfortable with elements of myself, a hurtful name slung my way would do just as intended. It would hurt. But with confidence, with acceptance, came a love of a roast, Top Trumping put-downs of my own or, better still, a shrug and zero f****s given.
We do a disservice to ourselves as a supposedly strong, confident nation if our first instinct is to go for the jugular when someone disrespects our hallowed land, or unintentionally trips up over a pronunciation.
A sheepshagger joke, or some popty ping vowel-free-language style rot? A disparaging opinion of a Welsh location? It’s not even worth a reply. Let that kind of thing simply reflect the IQ, or very often the fear and envy, of its originator.
A blooper of a pronunciation, especially when spoken with no ill intent? Is that really the best destination to direct our rage?
Unless your Maesygwartha, Llanllyfni and Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch roll off the tongue with ease, we’re all better off leaving the telling-off to the experts.
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The Beeb must have got the message: I happened to be watching their 24-hour news channel earlier today, Bannau Brycheiniog came up, and the news anchor pronounced it impeccably!
..and I think it was the same lady, who got it right this time. Good for her.
I suspected that it was, too; but as I was only half listening I wasn’t absolutely sure!
Mistakes happen. This was a storm in a tiny tiny tea cup.
I bet if we yanked out all the bloopers for mis spoken place names/items/people/animals etc. etc. it would be a very long TV show.
Radio Wales Road Traffic reports are a masterclass in poor practice in getting it right !
Have mentioned this before, still here reports telling me to avoid the A365 around Kevin coed or traffic problems in Carefully. Doh!
How many people to get Catherine Byaruhanga pronounced correctly? Do you wonder if fear of comments over mispronunciation is one of the reasons many people are hesitant to speak the language?
Back in the ‘80s, a colleague told me I was going to ‘Herworn’. I asked him where that was. He showed me on a map. ‘Oh, Hirwaun’ I said. ‘Yeah, that’s what I said’ he said. Sigh. I despair.
Generally, I think it’s more because it’s a regular occurrence and there’s still a serious effort politically to diminish Cymraeg – see some Tory and Reform politicians demands over constituency names recently.
BBC, as pointed out, does have a pronunciations unit – but it doesn’t seem to bother with Welsh on a full time basis.
Annwyl Nation.Cymru, am wybodaeth, yr enw harferol ydy Llanfair PG.
Mond ddeud …
Local-ish?.
Sky News carried a report, last week, on tourism in Eryri and Bannau Brycheiniog without even attempting the pronunciation. Using the english names instead.
Broadcasters are *paid* to pronounce names correctly.
They are also human.
Twp stori.
Stori dwp*
Had the sat-nav on from Pontypool to the south coast recently and it didn’t pronounce one single street name correctly Welsh or English. It pronounced Exmouth just like a local though, Xmuff.
When a lorry driver asked me for Ayv-ondale Road I was at a loss until I realised he was correctly pronouncing what we all call Afon-dale Rord round ‘yer.
Had that a couple of times myself here in Cwmbran, Torr fane is another one. The looks I get when I pronounce it correctly as Torrvine (Torfaen).
A guy once asked for the way to… Tony re fail. Said I have never heard of it
TBF I live in the Netherlands & the BBC manages to mangle Dutch in a cringeworthy fashion pretty regularly, we also have to make allowances for adult learners, for example, Dutch has a guttural ‘ch’ like Welsh, this has helped me massively in learning the language, but most foreign speakers are unable to form the sound properly, much the same goes for the ‘Ll’ sound which Dutch does not have and (unsurprisingly) Dutch people can’t actually do it…
But how many of Ms Byaruhanga’s detractors know how to pronounce her name correctly?
How is that even the same thing? Don’t complain if you can’t pronounce an African surname (in which language?). We are discussing the publically funded British broadcasting company’s ability to pronounce a native-British placename. You’ll know that our place names have been mangled and even ridiculed down the decades by various media outlets. While every individual is allowed the occasional mistake, Aunty should be ensuring that these mistakes are as rare as hen’s teeth.
Problem is we have these pesky things called “humans” in the chain. I have been abruptly pulled up for mispronouncing an English town or two incorrectly, or rather what the locals call it despite its spelling. I know that many news reporters and presenters have got it wrong in the past and they will continue to do so, but not through malice, this is all regions all over the UK, and will guess that includes the world. I would like to see most people who complain get it right the first time every time, sat in front of the camera,… Read more »
Let he without sin post first commentSo if you’re she this restriction doesn’t apply. Go ahead and post whether or not “sin” attaches to you. Pronounce freely as you wish and/ or try to learn the Welsh way. Best of all chuck the disgusting idea of sin out of your head. Become powerful and free instead. Oh and if any benighted males got squished by it all ignore it.
Some people look for reasons to be offended.
Despite my family connections to Wales, the reality of my dad working in the coal industry meant I grew up in Staffordshire and as a result had no formal education in Welsh. I taught myself the basics out of personal interest. I was actually helped a lot by two English people, one a friend and the other a relative who’d both lived in Wales for a while and made efforts to learn too. Understanding pronunciation of written Welsh is actually not difficult. I can read Welsh words out even when I don’t know what they mean. A resident of Brynmawr… Read more »