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Opinion

What next for the record-breaking Senedd petition opposing Wales’ 20 mph default speed limit?

29 Sep 2023 5 minute read
A screen grab of the 20mph Senedd petition.

Emily Price

The petition calling for the Welsh Government to scrap the new 20mph default speed limit is the most signed petition since the Senedd was created back in 1999.

The previous most signed petition in Senedd history was launched during the Covid-19 pandemic and called for the Welsh Government to allow non-essential items to be sold in supermarkets during lockdown.

The “non essential items” petition amassed 67,940 signatures whereas the petition to “rescind and remove the disastrous 20mph law” has now reached an eye-watering 448,000 signatures and shows no sign of waning.

But what happens next for the record breaking petition and how does the process of a Senedd petition actually work?

A person looking to start a Senedd petition must live in Wales and have the backing of at least two people.

At the 250 signature milestone, the Petitions Committee will decide what they can do to help – this can include pressing the Welsh Government for action.

At the all important 10,000 signature mark, the Petitions Committee will decide whether to ask for a debate in the Senedd chamber – but this is not guaranteed.

It’s safe to say the 20mph petition has not only reached these two magic numbers but it has raced past the mark, leaving smoke and dust in its wake.

But where are all these signatures coming from and are they all valid?

There is no standing order or requirement for signatories of a Senedd petition to live in Wales and in the case of the 20mph petition signatures have so far been recorded from over 60 countries.

Petition signatures from other countries were a feature of a previous Senedd petition calling of a ban on greyhound racing. This was thought to be because the controversial issue is one that has been widely campaigned against in other parts of the world.

If the majority of signatures on a Senedd petition are recorded from outside of Wales, the Senedd Petitions Committee would take that factor into account when considering it for debate.

Investigation

With the 20mph petition, an investigation was launched to look at where signatures were coming from and if the system was being tampered with in any way.

The investigation found that there has been some small scale duplication of signatures and some rather bizarre names recorded such as Rupert the Bear.

Overall though, the majority (around 94%) of the signatures recorded came from people in Wales with valid postcodes and email addresses.

In short, there has been no overwhelming evidence of tampering with the Senedd petition system in respect of the 20mph petition.

So why is the 20mph Senedd petition still gaining signatures even though it’s met the 10,000 threshold?

A lesser know Senedd petition which called for the Welsh Government to reconsider the roll out of the 20mph speed limit gained over 20,000 signatures.

It was closed early by the petitioner so the Welsh Government could debate the issue before the new speed limit came into force.

With the more recent record breaking 20mph petition, things are slightly different as the new default speed limit already exists. The fact that driving at 20mph is already a part people’s day to day is likely the reason the petition has attracted so many signatures.

It’s worth noting though, not all Senedd petitions just become active with no questions asked and there is a criteria that must be met before a petition can go live.

During the first week of the 20mph speed limit roll out there was an influx of Senedd petitions being  rejected.

Here’s a flavour of the some of the petitions that were refused:

  • “Call an election as the public no longer have confidence Mr Drakeford is acting in our interest.”
  • “Remove Mark Drakeford from Government.”
  • “Mark Drakeford to resign as First Minister.”
  • “A new referendum vote to abolish the Welsh Government for good.”

So why were they refused? If a petition concerns an issue that calls for someone to be given a job, lose their job or resign, or is a petition that calls for a vote of no confidence, the petition will be rejected.

The record breaking petition meets the Petitions Committee’s criteria because it calls for support from signatories on an issue that the Welsh Government are directly responsible for.

So what happens next for the 20mph Senedd petition?

When it reached the 10,000 mark and became eligible for a debate, an automatic email was generated to the person who launched the petition inviting them to end it early.

However, the petitioner has expressed he wishes to let it run all the way up until its scheduled closure in March meaning any debate wouldn’t take place in the Senedd until the spring.

Chair of the Petitions Committee, Jack Sargeant MS has said that due to the significant number of signatures he plans to recommend that the petition goes for debate – although he can’t guarantee his request will be approved.

If the Committee are in agreement, they will write to the Business Committee in the Senedd with the request and a date for debate will be scheduled.

The Welsh Government takes the process of a Senedd petition seriously and a debate will most certainly raise awareness of the issue and could even influence changes in the policy or help shape a review of the road regulation.

So will a debate result in the 20mph limit being scrapped? Although debates don’t always end with the petitioners desired outcome, Senedd petitions are powerful things in Wales.

They act as vehicle to get important issues on the floor of the Welsh Parliament, this in a nutshell is the whole point of democracy.


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Silenced!
Silenced!
1 year ago

Dismissal. Laughter. Derisions. Scepticism of the origin of signees.
Fading into history, an artefact of backwards looking Tories and their wedge issue lies.
A testament to self interest, gullibility and resistance to positive progress

TomTom82
TomTom82
1 year ago
Reply to  Silenced!

This new law was first suggested by a tory AM. As for positive progress? To me, going slower is anything but progress.

David
David
1 year ago

Were those names in Wales on the electoral register in Wales?

Alun Gerrard
Alun Gerrard
1 year ago
Reply to  David

Why should they be on any roll ?

Karl
Karl
1 year ago
Reply to  Alun Gerrard

Because it is to be debated by our Senedd. We elect those MS’s. So it is for the voter of Cymru to be represented only.

Kraag
Kraag
1 year ago
Reply to  Karl

Well said. Too much interference.

Jeff
Jeff
1 year ago

I have a particular account that used to give me 11 emails. I am sure there are many other ways, exclude the duplicates, how many Mr Drakeford etc. IP dresses match, would be interesting to see how many signed singular. The way this took off, really does smell of manipulation and I fully expect the usual suspect Cons backers to have had a go at this. Press included.

Now if Mr Davies is hanging his hat on a poll that could have been manipulated then Indy Wales next.

Llyn
Llyn
1 year ago

Here’s what will happen. There will be a debate relating to this petition; the Welsh Government along with local councils will by then be adding many more exemptions to the 20mph roads; the law will not be repealed and many on the British nationalist right/far-right in Wales (who remember have never accepted the will of the people via the referendums that set up the Senedd and through their words see all Senedd elections as illegitimate) will then say ha ha we don’t have any democracy so now the Senedd must be abolished (having never thought it should have existed in… Read more »

Alwyn Evans
Alwyn Evans
1 year ago
Reply to  Llyn

I would hope that the petition WILL be debated not only by the Petitions Committee, but that Jack Sargeant’s proposal will allow it to be once more debated at Senedd level. However, what REALLY needs to happen is that the 22 County Councils actually do the job that they should have done in the 4 years since the original decision to proceed with 20 mph default. The inconsistencies already identified (among the mass of blanket rejections) , for instance between county council boundary locations, and where arterial routes are unnecessarily impaired, need to be ironed out, and an analysis of… Read more »

Llyn
Llyn
1 year ago
Reply to  Alwyn Evans

I agree. There will be a debate and not just in the Committee. From Lee Waters recent interviews I think he realises that he needs to give the local authorities the confidence to make be able to confidently make more exemptions.

Alwyn Evans
Alwyn Evans
1 year ago
Reply to  Llyn

Llyn, they have the powers already. Laziness and slovenliness is the mak of many of these tinpot county councils who have had FOUR years to prepare

CapM
CapM
1 year ago

In order to sign a petition you have to enter a postcode.

It’s not so much the email addresses that need to be checked but the distribution of postcodes. This would identify if there are any odd clusters or non residential locations.

Jeff
Jeff
1 year ago
Reply to  CapM

Wondering also, I am thinking how many corner shops or hotels have signed this without knowing….

Y Cymro
Y Cymro
1 year ago

This petition means very little if those signatories signing are from outside of Wales. Would they have the same reaction if the Tories did similar in England? Simple answer. No. And if not, why not? Are those signing not able to think for themselves is the question that needs answering. But I ask this question. Where was the outrage when the English Tory government made that white elephant HS2 an “England and Wales” infrastructure build robbing of billions where both Scotland & Northern Ireland will receive consequential over its lifetime. Where were you? (A tumbleweed bounces by, the silence is… Read more »

Blodyn Tatws
Blodyn Tatws
1 year ago
Reply to  Y Cymro

Cymru is not an island. People travel both ways across the border with Wales to work, North to South Wales, visit families etc.
Labour supported by Plaid Cymru have got this wrong at great cost to the taxpayer. Yes there are areas where 5, 10,20mph are applicable but a default 20mph hasn’t been thought out and a lack of competence and common sense is being shown by Labour supported by Plaid Cymru. Please rethink and you owe the working people of Wales who pay tax an apology.

Llewz
Llewz
1 year ago
Reply to  Blodyn Tatws

The people who owe the taxpayer an apology are the numbskulls who vandalise the new 20 mph signage.

Petulant behaviour.

Tracy lewis
Tracy lewis
1 year ago
Reply to  Blodyn Tatws

Correct.
Isn’t tourism supposed to be promoted here in Wales why wouldn’t or shouldn’t people who have or want to visit have an opinion on a policy that will affect them!

Karl
Karl
1 year ago
Reply to  Tracy lewis

I visted France, Spain, Croatia and Norway in recent times. Do I get a say in policy there? It is a Cymru voter only debate. Because our Senedd serves those living here.

Kraag
Kraag
1 year ago
Reply to  Tracy lewis

Do I have say in devonian policies just because we visit? Of course not. If the tourist don’t like our policies so be it.

Gareth plas
Gareth plas
1 year ago

Here we are on the day that Sunak tells us this will never happen in England. Reaching out no doubt to all the potential Tory voters in Cymru who will then disregard the fact that, at its inception, the 20 rule was welcomed and promoted by the Welsh tories. Allegedly 1 in 6 people in Wales have signed the petition. How about changing the focus here to…,,no police, no social services, broken NHS, broken courts system, local authorities not doing their jobs, crap roads, a country bullied and ignored from a power base in another state. No? It’s another example… Read more »

Gareth
Gareth
1 year ago

I am shocked to see that Rupert the bear has signed this petition. A speed limit of 20 mph is good for wildlife, giving them the chance to escape while also giving drivers time to react. Shame on you Rupert. And the English press and the right wing take this petition seriously.

Alun Gerrard
Alun Gerrard
1 year ago

Why not ask any decent question? Example : Demand another election for or against the dismissal of the Senedd / WG. Voters to be listed on the ER.

Alwyn Evans
Alwyn Evans
1 year ago
Reply to  Alun Gerrard

I presume you mean a referendum? We had an election not only in 1999, but again in 2021. Labour won 30 seats. Conservatives, who two years earlier had introduced the 20 mph limit, gained 5, and now have 16. Plaid gained 1 and hold 13. The only parties that opposed 20 mph, the Brexit Party and UKIP, lost all their seats

TomTom82
TomTom82
1 year ago

So, the Welsh government allows people from outside Wales to petition the assembly on an issue it backs and then claims foul play when the same outsiders petition against the assemblies newly made law? Didn’t see that coming. Next, it’ll be moronic accusations of the Russians being involved.

Iago Traferth
Iago Traferth
1 year ago

Scrap petitions, they are counter productive, the ballot box is democracy.

Annibendod
Annibendod
1 year ago

Definitely an unpopular opinion here that has seen my comments deleted but here goes for the hard of hearing – 500,000+ PEOPLE ARE NOT ALL TORY STOOGES. STOP INSULTING THEM. ACCEPT THAT THERE IS LEGITIMATE CRITICISM OF THIS NEW LAW. In fairness, Alwyn Evans has nailed it with his comment above. Yes, LA’s need to make sure that arterial routes are kept flowing – the WG need to show leadership and make this happen. There are a bunch of reasons why WG should take the views of the Welsh electorate seriously on this – it brings into doubt that this… Read more »

CapM
CapM
1 year ago
Reply to  Annibendod

Of those ” Very few people question the limit in residential side streets or around schools etc” I’ve heard none admit that pedestrians are not just confined to “residential side streets or around schools etc,” I suppose that if they did admit it a big part of the foundation for their argument crumbles away. Care visits are already so tightly timetabled that many care workers are stretched to meet appointments with a 30mph limit. It’s not the fault of the limit whether 30 or 20. It’s the large, remote and often foreign owned care businesses who are primarily concerned with… Read more »

Alwyn Evans
Alwyn Evans
1 year ago
Reply to  Annibendod

I’d agree, Annibendod – so WHY won’t the petition proposer allow his petition to go forward?. The only two reasons I can think of are 1. Malice and 2.Personal perverseness? Where are the examples of LOCAL pressure on county councillors to DO THEIR JOB?

Pobun
Pobun
1 year ago
Reply to  Annibendod

The LAs have already had exemptions allowed and there will surely be more. The main reason people petitioned in my opinion is because of the use of the term blanket 20mph limit. It is anything but that! So much so, that I followed a car doing 20 on a 40 mph road that hadn’t changed, surely influenced by the belief that every road was now 20mph I drive across Barry regularly and it has not made a noticeable difference to my journey and most drivers seem to be abiding by it. Most of the arterial roads in Barry have remained… Read more »

Karl
Karl
1 year ago
Reply to  Annibendod

Valleys towns and villages all have houses on main roads. Are our needs of cleaner air and safety inferior? Because local to me, people want my road back to 30 (not that they ever did as low as 30). And keep their side streets 20. Selfish behaviour and I am sick of it. Vehicle users have created an unsafe enviroment around our homes, tough titty as they say.

Alison Roebuck
Alison Roebuck
1 year ago

When where We THE PEOPLE were asked????

CapM
CapM
1 year ago
Reply to  Alison Roebuck

If you or any of the rest of “THE PEOPLE” live in Cymru and are eligible to vote you were asked in the last Senedd election.
The introduction of the 20mph limit was in the Labour manifesto.
If you or any of the rest of “THE PEOPLE” could vote and didn’t vote you haven’t really got any grounds for complaint.
If you or any of the rest of “THE PEOPLE” voted Labour your support of the 20mph was implicit.
If you or any of the rest of “THE PEOPLE” voted other than Labour well tough that’s democracy.

Alwyn Evans
Alwyn Evans
1 year ago
Reply to  Alison Roebuck

You have been – Labour manifesto 2021 election

Karl
Karl
1 year ago
Reply to  Alison Roebuck

In the manifesto for Labour at the last election. So we the people voted for the party and manifesto. I support it, but don’t vote Labour. So loving thirony of fools who take little interst in the parties they vote for.

Edd.
Edd.
1 year ago

Roads are for cars, pavements are for pedestrians. When pedestrians are crossing roads and not on a zebra crossing. The pedestrians need to look up from their phones and iPads and check for traffic both ways. The responsibility is not with the driver but with the pedestrian while crossing. Stop this nonsense.

CapM
CapM
1 year ago
Reply to  Edd.

Anyone would think that vehicle on vehicle or vehicle on street furniture etc collisions never happen. I expect insurance companies could collectively be able to provide a total number and financial cost of such incidents. There’s also the inconvenience to the driver, whether it’s just a broken door mirror or a right off head on. It’s reasonable to think that at 20mph both the number and extent of damage to vehicles due to collisions that don’t involve pedestrians etc will be less that it is under 30mph limits. An advantage of the 20mph limit to those persecuted drivers who’ll now… Read more »

Blcollier
Blcollier
1 year ago
Reply to  Edd.

If that’s your attitude then I hope to god I’m never around you when you’re driving, you sound like a collision waiting to happen. You’re also objectively wrong. In case you hadn’t noticed, the Highway Code was updated last year giving all road users greater responsibility over the safety of those more vulnerable than they are. Cyclists have greater responsibility for the safety of pedestrians, as pedestrians are more vulnerable than cyclists. Car drivers have a greater responsibility for the safety of those more vulnerable than they are: motorcyclists, cyclists, and pedestrians. Drivers of larger vehicles also have a greater… Read more »

Twffr
Twffr
1 year ago
Reply to  Edd.

Roads are for everyone! This point of view is way out of date. And dangerous

Kraag
Kraag
1 year ago

What a fuss about very little. It seems to be almost mass hysteria. Most roads are still the same so why the huge fuss? Obviously there will be teething problems and some will change but I’ve not noticed much difference at all as I’vetravelled around. Why do so many think speed is exceptable. After so many crashes outside and into my home I’m delighted they have to slow down now.

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