What next for Yes Cymru?
Llew Gruffudd
Yes Cymru is presently experiencing bad press. A bad press that is impacting on the movement as a whole.
As a result there seems to be criticism outside and dissent internally. The reason. Management problems and/or bad management decisions.
What a revelation. An organisation, quite a large organisation, with management problems. Yes Cymru would be unusual, if not unique if it did not.
However, not to make light of it, it is of concern.
Yes Cymru is central to the push for Independence in Wales and it is to all our benefit to have a smooth functioning movement. The positives, that far outweigh these organisational blips, is that Yes Cymru remains focused on Independence.
Secondly, Yes Cymru is its members and they, in the great majority, remain committed to this cause.
The question for those losing faith, is where do you go. There is no other credible pro Independence movement.
As for the political parties
There is Welsh Labour, kneeling at the altar of big government in Westminster. Plaid Cymru , still dithering to find a comfortable spot to settle.
Tories and Reform who can be dismissed with regard to Independence.
The Commission on the Constitution suggested three options with regard to the future governance of Wales.
Two of them, enhanced devolution and federalism, are the political equivalent of kicking the can down the road.
So it has to be Independence and if it’s Independence, it has to be Yes Cymru.
Lack of planning
The biggest criticism, in my view, of Yes Cymru management, is the lack of a plan beyond the rallies.
The fact that the support for Independence is remarkably high in Wales, in spite of the lack of any political promotion, is due in large part, to the awareness raised by Yes Cymru, through its public demonstrations.
Although they have a large part to play, there was always a limit to the success of that approach and I would suspect that that limit has been reached.
What the management of Yes Cymru failed to recognise was that the members of Yes Cymru are activists and as that implies, they need to be active. Usefully active to their end goal.
Without the rallies and other ad hoc activities there is no plan, no strategy. This has inevitably led to restlessness and frustration.
So how to activate the activists
There is so much concentration on political parties in Wales, that it ignores the realities.
The reality, that whatever party claims the dubious prize of being number one in the Senedd, it will make very little difference to the Welsh public.
Whatever the plans, manifestos or promises, or in the case of Reform just the words, none will be in a position to make significant differences.
The system doesn’t allow it.
It’s the system that needs changing.
And that’s where Yes Cymru comes to the fore.
Independence in Scotland and unification in N/Ireland is widely debated. Not so in Wales and that should be the aim.
A change to the system in Wales lies not in the hands of Welsh politicians, but in securing the hearts and minds of the Welsh people.
To persuade them of the benefits of a sovereign Wales.
Convince them how they will be better off with Independence and the rest will follow.
A significant upward trend in the public support for Independence, will inevitably be followed by politicians, tripping over themselves to proclaim that they have always supported an Independent Wales, if that’s what the people wanted.
And that’s why you need Yes Cymru.
Yes Cymru are uniquely placed in Wales for the job. They have a national network of active groups.
They are in touch with the people, their communities.
They are a one issue movement, without the baggage of political parties or political prevarication.
So how do they do it?
The next step for Yes Cymru
In the absence of a plan, in my modest way I will make a suggestion.
Yes Cymru members have no need to wait for the management to sort themselves out. They can act quite independently.
It is simple and can be implemented without direction from above.
It would be more effective if coordinated, but that is not an obstacle.
So. Each group, throughout Wales, organizes open forums, public meetings, in the areas they operate.
Public welcome. Indeed essential.
Single and universal topic.
Yes Cymru invites you to hear how Welsh Independence will improve your lives. And staying with the Union will not.
How Independence will improve pensions, wages, housing, environment, public and local services. Or something like that.
Notices and a meeting place is all it takes. And Yes Cymru members of course.
It is low cost and can be organised by groups small and large.
The format, simple. A presentation and questions.
Choose a panel from the members, perhaps half a dozen. Each develops a knowledge in different areas, economy, energy, border issues etc, to deal with public questions and concerns.
There is a wealth of facts in support and plenty of people out there to help put it together. The likes of Dr John Ball and others.
The forum moves from area to area within the constituency of operation and when you finish, just like painting the Severn Bridge, you start all over again.
The benefits
The notices and meetings alone will promote an increased awareness of Independence. The discussion and interaction will promote awareness of Independence.
It is a membership drive in itself.
Most importantly, it will result in a better informed public. With the benefits of Independence widely shared.
An additional and equally important benefit is that a pool of talent will be created of Yes Cymru activists, increasingly knowledgeable of the intricacies of Independence and familiar with close interaction with the public.
This is a pool from which some of the leaders of the new Independent Wales can be drawn. For the old lot will not do..
So Yes Cymru members, ignore the political chattering, the doom merchants and naysayers, you have activities to get on with.
No other organisation can do it.
You seek an Independent Wales, so tell the people of Wales why they want it too.
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“Tories and Reform who can be dismissed with regard to Independence” On the contrary, they are an inherent organisational and ideological backstop against it. The Tories with actual Wales historical class & sectional support (despite the fanciful claims otherwise), and Reform with a now increasing presence and reach in a totally disaffected Wales. With every action there is a reaction and while you are holding reading circles for the sadly “indifferent”, they will have been gifted a significant electoral pivot and lever. There’s a big audience for that. And a further thought, maybe read Lenin’s “What is to be done”-… Read more »
I recognise that my opinion piece falls short of the revolution you seek, but as I don;t see a lot of progress on that front, I thought I would just stick with Independence at the moment. I can understand that people do tend to interpret for their own agenda, but you really should read in context. My comment regarding Reform and the Tories was clearly in the context that there will be no support from them regarding Independence. I do notice that you are also quite selective in your quotes from ‘What is to be done ‘ for doesn’t Lenin… Read more »
What? Reform and the Tories don’t want Welsh Independence. So if we’re discussing organisations that support independence we can discount them. Thats hardly a complex or contentious concept. And certainly not one that has anything even vaguely to do with Lenin. I can assure you that Gwlad, a party that is pro-independence is anything but Leninist! What a bizarre and strangely X appropriate comment!
Yes Cymru needs to fight for independence. JUST THAT. The Elected Government of the New State will decide whatever policies are to be followed. If Yes Cymru follows some left wing agenda or a right wing agenda it just turns people off. CYMRU RYDD will be a free country not run by Globalist crack pots or Right wing crack pots. But by and for the people of Wales.
The MOMENT you say “Independence” it demands content and concreteness. No-one, certainly no modern electorate, is giving you a blank cheque, “we’ll find out later”? Try selling that on the doorstep.
Which is why these ramshackle outfits fall apart and will continue to do so. A historical combination of naïvity and gross political opportunism.
And yet people voted for Brexit on the basis of ‘we’ll work it out later’. A referendum would be to ask what people want. It absolutely is just ‘do you want Wales to be self governing?’ When we know that people want that we can ask them how they want to be governed.
“In my beginning is my end”. TS Eliot. The moment you raise independence as a serious question, a future, the SERIOUS response is what is the economic & political form of this putative future, the politics, who really benefits, winners & losers, relationships, opportunity costs et al. You’ll be buried under it. No form without content.
Try selling “the holiday of the lifetime” without revealing the destination, accomodation, people ,climate, food, cost etc etc. Or maybe you would – Kazakhstan is apparently wonderful at this time of year…
You’re saying all this as if I’m new to this! We’ve been making these arguments for decades. You can give options, show comparators, ask for opinions (none of which YC do) but you cannot tell the future. You cannot foretell how every other country on the planet will decide to interact with you; when the next economic/natural crisis will be; when the next war will be triggered. It can take years to set up a country properly. No one can give definites and trying to claim they can is infantile. We can’t offer that level of definite about staying in… Read more »
Really? But I hear regular categorical assertions on this site and others that “Independence” is the only viable way forwards! Proven! Scientific! Anything other or less is white noise, merely a distraction! Now there are – wait for it – deep uncertainties, the future is unknown, external dependencies, international affairs, an unknown host of variables, asteroids with Wales’ name on it. Maybe! And all the time your are pimping this glorious “abstraction” (please don’t ask for detail) “Independence”. Bluntly you haven’t a bloody clue or chance! And the point about the Union, is that we ARE In it, the law… Read more »
Funny you should have written that last sentence when we have been watching the paint dry for decades on this badly rotten Union. A colony tucked in neatly into the Union for about 7-8 centuries but the thing has crumbled at a faster rate since 1945.
As my dad used to say – not much point painting over rotten wood, far better to rip it out and replace it with new materials.
an awful lot of vitriol from one person. Perhaps its the angst from all that ‘ remorselessly fighting ‘ for the revolution, that you are busy carrying out. That is when you are not trying to be the Stephen Fry of the comments sections, a little quote from here and a little quote from there, just to show how clever you are or maybe to mask the shallow nature of your argument. When Lenin doesn’t work try Freud. A bit of a leap, that. And when you can’t get a decent quote, just make one up ‘ law of existing… Read more »
Calm down perhaps! You post a full article here on the crucial & unifying role (the only viable agency?) of Yes Cymru in the long march to Welsh Independence – and away from my obvious scepticism – you IMMEDIATELY get two of the leading & recognisable figures of that crusade at each others throats, to the point of a defiant “I will not be silent!” met by “just go away!” And this is the proselytising agency that has already made an art form of implosion! Who could not build a secure future on THAT quicksand?! Boots on! Bringing the public… Read more »
Always calm. I notice that you are still snuffling through the comments to find t*t bits that you believe reinforces your destructive diatribe. So too the emotive language such as implosion of Yes Cymru. You are quick to quote the examples of two leading figures ‘ at each other’s throats ‘ not by the way due to my article. While they are examples of differently held views of the way forward for Yes Cymru. neither denounce the YC role and there is no difference between them as to the end goal. An informed mind would recognise that all movements have… Read more »
This type of activity was included in the strategic plan for Yes Cymru developed in 2023. There was to be support for local groups (with a bit more cash to pay for venues and a cuppa) and integrated comms to promote them, an annual conference to bring groups together and support with training, and regular, streamed discussion panels organised by the central team. As you say, low cost, lots of engagement. All this was thrown out under Barry Parkin as chair along with the people qualified to make this happen as members of the NGB. We had invites out to… Read more »
‘Yes Cymru’, to judge from my experience in seeking to subscribe to it, seems to me to be an idealistic and very well-intentioned company of folk who are nonetheless hampered by a pretty shambolic organization.
That’s a pity, but despite those failings it has succeeded considerably in arousing significant political patriotic passion in places within Wales – like the rather conventional and respectable small town nearest to where I live – where such things would have been quite inconceivable half a century ago. So credit where it’s due.
I agree in general with everything Llew Gruffudd says. When one reflects on the history of mass movements in Wales, the Methodist Revival, the Temperance Movement, the Chartists, the Liberal Party, the Suffragettes, the Trade Union and Labour movement, Cymdeithas yr Iaith (1 & 2) etc we read in the history books about their notable mass gatherings, but we forget that all of these were enabled by small local societies, cells, groups, meetings etc. Without the small chapels there would be no Sasiwn on Green y Bala. Without the local temperance marches of 2 to 300 in Gwynedd… Read more »
Troble is it’s very local.
“The biggest criticism, in my view, of Yes Cymru management, is the lack of a plan beyond the rallies.” Maybe it’s a tacit admission that although those rallies are “big” by some standards they have not been big enough to motivate politicians, Plaid in particular, to adopt independence as its principal central policy. Big rallies might also stimulate Llafur Cymru to shift or split into pro and anti groups which would blow away any ambiguity about them. I don’t think we can rely on YC to be the sole focus of the drive to statehood as our so called democratic… Read more »
I am not admitting, tacit or otherwise, that the rallies are not big enough. What I am suggesting is that form has a limit of effectiveness. It tells people that there is another way, but not the whys and hows. Scotland for example, had very large rallies in support of Independence, but it did not turn Scottish Labour, or indeed sufficient numbers of voters. There is no magic bullet for Independence, but that battle will not be won until the Welsh public are convinced of its merits. My suggestion is one way of doing so and Yes Cymru are best… Read more »
Llew Gruffudd makes some interesting comments. It’s a shame that he starts what turned out to be a generally positive piece with a negative comment about “bad press.” Anyone can be negative and some of the comments appear to be aimed at damaging Yes Cymru and settling personal scores (Cinzia, please vent your spleen elsewhere) than recognising the good it does. If you don’t like what we do, just go away. Remember Yes Cymru is a voluntary organisation and like all organisations there are differences and those quick to criticise must remember this – members give freely of the their… Read more »
Dr Ball, I will tell the truth about YC wherever and whenever I want. If a member publicly asks why YC don’t have a strategy I am completely within my rights to explain why as a former member of the NGB (who incidentally fought for and facilitated the strategy development meetings). Some of us were passionate enough to want to try to make YC work as an effective campaign group, just as the author here calls for. Members deserve to know about the decisions made by the NGB. As for venting spleen you may wish to look in the mirror… Read more »
Thank you for your reply.
When I look in the mirror I see someone who has worked in and believed in the national cause all his life.
What I do NOT do is rush to the media to settle private scores that damage the cause.
Please do us all a favour and go away.
Comments like this are the reason YesCyrmu is losing members in droves.
I nodded to Lenin at the start of all this! In fact I now think Freud is far more relevant. “The narcissism of small differences”, the personal affront and magnified hostility engendered by minor divergences of personality and orthodoxy etc in small “purity” organisations and fringe groups. It promises much more for the future as things get really “rough” in the trenches. Avante!
To be fair ‘we should hoard all this money and do nothing except wave flags’ and ‘we should spend this money on actually campaigning because thats what we’ve told the members their money will be used for’ is quite a major divergence of opinion.
I don’t mind criticism or indeed to accept the views of others, even if I disagree.
In your rush to criticise me you seem to forget that contributions by Cinzia here, and in the past have been totally negative toward Yes Cymru.
I’ve worked hard for freedom all my life, including to build Yes Cymru. What have you done?
A private score? Do you not understand whistle blowing? And what makes you assume I haven’t similarly dedicated my life to this cause? Have you bothered to find out who I am? What I have done? Why I became a director? Whether the accusations levelled have any logical basis at all, let alone factual? Have you asked these questions of the other major players in YC? Or the others who were forced out? We tried to save the movement – to do the things that Llew and other commenters here want YC to do. This is passion for the cause.… Read more »
There are times when comments should not be dignified with a reply.
One reply is however needed. No, I do not ask questions of “other major players” because they do not rush into print to attack the movement.
Suffice to say that your latest rant sums you up.
Enough.
Enough what? Asking questions of a national org that holds members’ money? If you mean it sums me up by being keen to be transparent and expecting that from others spending other’s money, then yes, it sums me up. If you mean my requirement for transparency, proper governance and adherence to the law, then yes it sums me up. If you mean my desire to tell the truth, then yes is sums me up. If you don’t have the critical thinking to ask questions about who you’re supporting and who you’re attacking that evidently sums you up. And a large… Read more »
Dear Dr Yates It was not my intention to respond to this, I think enough has been sides on both sides – and by others. Having said that, I think two matters need to be clarified. My criticism of your comments was not whether they were right or wrong but that you went to the media – and not for the first time – to criticise our movement when you should have taken the matter up with your local group, the national chair, governors or deputies. The second point is perhaps more important. I really do take exception to your… Read more »
Typo! sentence should read …has been said on both sides…
The case is that YesCymru has had its struggles. The remainder of the board that existed prior to the last elections has cast a shadow over our cause by remaining in place. If the organisation was so keen to put this behind then there should have been a completely new board. The fact there wasn’t massively damaged the credibility of the organisation. No one has the right to tell any other Independence supporter to go away. We all don’t have to like or agree with each other but YesCymru was meant to be for everyone; people are allowed to critique… Read more »
Spot on. Every movement for change has to start somewhere and Yes Cymru is well placed to lead on this.
An independant Wales,( maybe as an equal partner in a federal UK ), has to succeed if we are to prosper.
In my opinion support for a free Wales is as much about the heart as the head. Yma O Hyd and all that.
A massive promotion of the ways in which Wales is ripped off by Westminster wouldn’t go amiss.
You were going well until the point about the federal UK. I notice you put it in brackets, please keep it there. A UK federal state would always have the problem of dominance of England or a collection of English regions. There is no federal system in the world where there is equality. Each has poor and wealthy, powerful and less so. This in spite of the so called safeguards in place. The same would be the case in a UK system and history should tell us where Wales position would be. Also financial policy and primary legislation would still… Read more »
As a recent convert to Independence for Cymru I have read much material that makes it clear that and independent Cymru would be a viable state. So, for me the question would be how do we get there. Clearly there are many people who are passionate about achieving that goal, but from where I sit the chance of Westminster letting Cymru ‘go’ is close to zero. They will not let Scotland go and they have a much larger pro-independence block in their population. So, what is to be done? No doubt there are many things, but the one that strikes… Read more »
much of what you say makes much sense. If the fee is an obstacle it should be, as you say, scaled. I do however differ from your stance that Westminster will prevent it. If the majority of the Welsh population show a consistent majority in favour of Independence, Westminster would have great difficulty legitimately preventing it. Scotland was allowed a referendum, which had they won would have meant an Independent Scotland. The present argument in that regard is that it was a ‘ once in a generation event ‘. That argument cannot be used with regard to Wales.
Cameron was arrogant with it tbh. After how close it was and the Brexit referendum backfiring they’ll do all they can to distract and delay. A referendum is just another hoop they want us to jump through.
Devo… they withhold powers because drip feeding our political wing powers will delay us until our movement loses momentum (and there is ebb and flow). It will always rise again but provided they still have those cards to play in regards to powers they’ll always have that power to slow us.
I find such negativity in these columns. We know there will be resistance both from within and without Wales. Scotland experienced it and so will Wales. Scotland however pushes on, while we in Wales just drop our heads. The question was however, that Westminster will prevent it. I still argue, that with a consistent majority in Wales in favour of Independence they cannot legitimately do so. Getting that majority is down to us. Rather than continually carping about Westminster and others doing us down, we just accept that they will and find ways to overcome whatever obstacles are placed in… Read more »