New centre-right pro-Welsh independence party in the pipeline
A plan to create a new culturally and fiscally conservative pro-independence party will be discussed at an Aberystwyth hotel next month.
Prominent nationalist blogger Royston Jones has booked out a room for 50-60 people at the Marine Hotel, Aberystwyth on 1pm, November the 4th for the event.
On his blog he sets out the party’s principles: “Anyone who thinks Wales needs another socialist party, or a bigger third sector, or more Englandandwales organisations, really has nothing to contribute.”
The party will prioritise developing an integrated economy for Wales, and ensuring that the people of Wales are aware of their own language, culture and history.
It would also replace cross-border bodies with Welsh ones, and give priority to people from Wales on matters such as housing, he suggests.
“I would like to see a party that can ruthlessly expose the shortcomings of the parties currently ruining Wales while coming up with constructive ideas for making Wales a better place for our people,” writes Royston Jones.
“All the while reminding them that only by taking control of their own destiny can they have a country that stands comparison with the rest of Europe and the wider world.”
He encourages anyone with an interest in attending the meeting to get in touch.
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Good luck to them. Seriously. It could be the beginnings of a true Welsh political scene, where there is more than one Welsh party. I won’t be joining. But at least we can have a sensible Welsh debate on matters. I sincerely hope that, at least until independence, they have the sense not to stand against Plaid in Westminster seats which could lose Plaid the seat, or prevent a potential gain, thus handing it over to a London party. Conversely, I hope that Plaid might consider standing down in areas which might attract more right wing votes, in the future… Read more »
Dwi’n cytuno ar beidio â sefyll lle gall Plaid ennill (I agree on not standing where Plaid can win). Ond the whole, however, I would certainly consider joining it and shall be contacting this Royston fellow. If he is reading, I hope he understands we cannot have another nationalist party in Y Fro Gymraeg. Plaid’s unity there, whether you agree with their nonsensical and childish socialist side or not, is too precious to us as a nation to disrupt for petty ideological differences. However, if this party merely becomes a xenophobic rant against English people, I shall tell them to… Read more »
I am “this Royston fellow”. What you’re suggesting betrays confused thinking. I say that because – as you admit – Plaid Cymru relies on the Fro Gymraeg for its seats but it has no intention of defending the Fro from the demographic change that has already undermined Ceredigion and is creeping up the coast. (Also advancing along the north coast.) The outcome is all too easy to predict – destruction of the Fro Gymraeg and the end of Plaid Cymru. It’s only a matter of time. Further, by arguing as you do you reinforce the perception that Plaid Cymru is… Read more »
Royston fellow, I will consider whether i will go to Aberystwyth or not. However, I cannot support splitting the Plaid Cymru vote in areas where it wins; it would be a disaster. If you wish to stop the destruction of y Fro Gymraeg, dividing the nationalist vote is not the answer. Unless Plaid’s tolerant, friendly attitude wins loads more seats, only a grassroots, community by community movement, unconnected to a political party like YesCymru, but a movement which is right-wing, semi-militant and focused entirely the Welsh-language; only that will save the Welsh Language if Plaid Cymru’s tolerant approach does not… Read more »
You do realise that Plaid is set to lose seats in the old Fro Cymraeg – Arfon and Ceredigion At the last election these were won/held by a whisker with the help of the GE being held outside University term times There has been a devastating reduction of Welsh speakers in areas as Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion correlated with huge migration of those with little interest in our language and culture Despite constant please Plaid has done nothing Indeed it has objected to those who brought up this issue Something needs to be done now -before it’s too late.
Are you deliberately perpetuating the myth that Plaid Cymru is only for Welsh speakers? Fortunately, many incomers realise that this is not the case. I know from being out canvassing in Ceredigion that a lot of Plaid votes come from people who are fed up with the three English parties and want a true Welsh alternative that will look after their interests as residents of Wales. Other incomers have not been dispelled of the myth that those such as yourself would perpetuate. But often with a little care and diplomacy they can come to see that Plaid is for everyone… Read more »
If Plaid could work with others of different political view points there’d be no need for this.
In my view the biggest tragedy in recent Welsh history was the failure of the ‘Rainbow coalition’ to oust Labour from power after the 2007 Assembly election. That would have blown Welsh politics wide open and paved the way for at least the possibility of real change for the better. To apportion blame where it’s due, it was the Liberal Democrats who vetoed that because they couldn’t stomach working with the Tories (only to do exactly that in Westminster a mere three years later). Even so, what Plaid Cymru did next, going into coalition to prop up the Labour government,… Read more »
Even if the Lib Dems had agreed, there were enough in Plaid Cymru opposed to the deal to scupper it. I remember Helen Mary Jones talking about Conservatives as if they were devils incarnate.
Whilst I often see comments on this site about the need for a more right-wing pro-independence party (‘culturally and fiscally conservative’ in this case), they very rarely seem to explain which right-wing policies they’d like to see, nor which ‘socialist’ policies they’d like to ditch.
Maybe we’re about to find out. I doubt they’ll have much success though, as Wales is and always has been a left leaning country. But it could provide some interesting debate.
Wales used to be left leaning … now more into dependency culture. Of course it’s the benefit “scroungers” who get all the bad publicity but we are hard pressed to find a genuine entrepreneur in Wales who is able to get businesses up and running without a grant or some kind of “soft” finance laid on for him. The business community bleats non stop, not recognising the irony of their persistent attacks on taxation and regulation while hawking around for any old handout that can be grasped. So all we have is a mediocre addiction to the public purse from… Read more »
“Wales is and always has been a left leaning country”, which of course explains why Ukip did so well in the Valleys, and why Wales voted for Brexit. Stop living in an idealised past.
Populism knows no political boundaries. But people revert to type when it lets them down.
Wales was ‘socialist’ because a working class population voted for those they believed would put more money in their pockets. That’s all there was to it. There was no deep, ideological commitment to socialism except from a small – usually economically comfortable – minority. And even with them there was a lot of posturing.
To be fair Royston,,,,,,traditionally it was the left wing of Prydain! Britain against the EU and its cabal of bankers and unpatriotic corporate capitalists……..be aware of the incredible individual factors at play
There is a Socialist argument for Brexit it just was hardly supported at all in Westminster or Cardiff bay Because they are left wing and right wing liberals that everybody is sick of.Fasinated to see how it goes for you though.Will there be any notifications on facebook?
No, it’s absolutely not true that Wales has always been a left-leaning country. To quote Abel Hughes, the redoubtable old chapel elder from Daniel Owen’s ‘Rhys Lewis’, “these strikes are a very strange thing. They’re things that come from the English; they don’t belong to us, and I fear that they will do a lot of harm to our country”. Welsh nonconformity was an essentially conservative (small ‘c’) movement, both socially and economically, and it was only in the very late 19th and early 20th centuries that overwhelming numbers of immigrants from England and Ireland into the industrial areas became… Read more »
I think you’ve misunderstood the political landscape in Daniel Owen’s day. They were against the strikes not because they were conservative but because they were liberals. They believed in the free market and industrial action were seen as a mutilation of that. However in religious terms they were of course v. conservative by our own standards! – Ifan
You’re not wrong, Ifan; one of the scandals of our current age is that the term ‘liberal’ gets attached to people with views at the opposite end of the spectrum from its original meaning. A 19th century liberal would indeed be strongly in favour of the free market, and by implication totally opposed to the ‘progressive’ parties of our day who see free-market capitalism as the problem rather than the solution for lifting people out of poverty. The best example of this in the works of Daniel Owen is the speech that Bob Lewis makes to the miners in chapter… Read more »
I would have thought that workers owning their workplaces and keeping the profits of their own work would have been the best route, no?
instead of one boss taking and owning all the wealth.
Another huge myth in this world….is socialism and communism…………Socialism loves the state…..communism detests it………USSR was totalitarian socialism
Communism = left libertarianism…………and has a lot in common with right wing libertarianism….apart from its unapologetic ultra selfishness (which commies think is wrong)
But isn’t the ‘unapologetic ultra selfishness’ the bigger part of right wing libertarianism? Agree with you about left libertariansism, but I rather think that communism still has associations with Leininism and Stalinism, so perhaps ‘anarcho-syndicalism’ would be a better label?
A bellwether’s traditional function is to sniff the wind (stench?) of things happening before they happen and bleat a warning to the sheeple. Bit of a trek from my part of Y Fro but I guess I ought to attend. Years since I’ve been to a good riot!
Good luck to them. As a life-long, unreconstructed Leftie, I won’t be voting for them, but if they can give a home to right wing indy supporters then they are desperately needed on our political landscape. I wish I could agree that Wales is a left leaning country, but being an anti-Tory country is not the same as being left-wing.
Or you could abandon such media enforced terminologies such as Left and Right. They don’t fit, they never have. Let me ask you something… are you a Welsh nationalist? Do you wish to see the Welsh language thrive and create a bilingual nation? Do you want to see our history taught in schools rather than English/British history? Do you want to see Wales endure? Because that is traditionalism. That is conservatism. Elements found on the “right”. Humans are creatures of habit, habit becomes tradition. This isn’t about left and right. This is about protecting ourselves from nasty media productions like… Read more »
Read the post. Couldn’t find any specific reference to “fiscally conservative” policies, just ‘not socialist’. They are not the same thing.
I’m on the opposite wing of the Welsh indy movement myself but there’s no reason why people on the centre right who support Welsh independence shouldn’t be represented at the ballot box. Furthermore I trust those in plaid who have been trying to undermine leanne wood will leave to join this new party
The three main parties, in Cymru, if compared to the “social diseases” , Aids, Syphilis, Gonorrhea – which we have to choose from – might see, Royston Jones, party being a shot of penicillin in Wales collective buts.
Very colourful, though I might have used a different analogy.
I’m having difficulty in determining what a centre-right party is. Anything right of centre is Tory to me. I agree with many points noted but what about a fair voting system (not what we have in the Senedd), public ownership of services we all rely on everyday. What about a Development Bank, defence, renewable energy, Europe, broadcasting and a host of other important issues. Finally, who are you hoping to attract to your cause?
It’s refreshing to see a new initaitive like this and it’s surely indicative of the way that many nationalists in Wales are despairing of the state of Plaid Cymru. Those warning of splitting the vote may not be aware that an STV system is likely to be in place by 2020 which will probably mean 30 constituencies electing 3 members each. A new independence party could win seats in areas without necessarily depriving PC of their current representation. Having said that, i’m not too enamoured of this left-right obsession propagated by the UK media for their own purposes. Personally, I… Read more »
Nothing there with which I disagree. See you on November 4th?
So, I haven’t seen any news on this since. How did the meeting go yesterday?
This is probably a good idea if our sole aim is independence for the sake of independence. For me, I want to live in a more socialist country, and I support independence with the view that we can become more socialist after independence. I do wonder how many people who support independence share this view? Perhaps the Nation.Cymru survey will help answer this.
Apart from anything else the bit of the article which says, “give priority to people from Wales on matters such as housing” worries me about the direction this could take. Sounds very UKIP to me.
If you are content for local people to be consistently shuffled down waiting lists for housing because “problem” families have been relocated by English metropolitan authorities into Wales, or be held up in a queue for NHS treatment because it’s fashionable for people to relocate to Wales in retirement just in time for all the age related ailments to come charging into their lives, then I suspect the Tories, LibDems or even Labour is more your bag. And Plaid will greet you with open arms. As for UKIP their highly mobile stance generally means that Wales will just be a… Read more »
Should therefore a ‘Welsh’ by your definition ‘problem family’ take presidence over an ‘English’ by your definition non-problem family, resident in Wales? Should a Patagonian or, perish the thought, English-born Welsh resident who may or may not be culturally Welsh, whatever that means, receive lesser status, than a Welsh-born but British identifying Cardiffian of English ancestry who has no affinity for anything you may see as Welsh? I myself was born in England, of mixed Welsh and Spanish heritage, and live in Wales by choice, it is my home and anyone who thinks otherwise can do one. I have lived… Read more »
I suspect that you have missed the point on this. The choices are not as you have stated them. Currently there are several organisations “facilitating” the transfer of problem families or individuals usually from major English metropolitan authorities into various parts of Wales. It is this traffic that one is primarily objecting as its knock on effects are significant where budgets are tight and Welsh government isn’t able or willing to pipe up about the consequences. These will be helped into the queue for housing and services often leapfrogging those assorted kinds of people that you referred to in your… Read more »
Im not concerned with socialism. I simply want to be able to speak Welsh in Mynwy and Y Rhyl to a random shopkeeper and busdriver without being bullied.
Better to live in a British Wales which is %90 Welsh speaking than an independent Wales which is %10 Welsh speaking. I do worry left leaning independence could be what kills the Welsh Language.
If you want “to live in a British Wales which is %90 Welsh speaking” then you’re 200 years too late. And it’s never coming back.
Was not implying i do. Only saying Welsh independence is utterly pointless if Welsh is spoken by a pitiful minority and never realises its potential as the de facto language of an independent political state, as Finnish enjoys in its bilingual Finnish/Swedish speaking nation.
We don’t need a party of the centre right. We’ve got one – Plaid Cymru.
What we need is an independent party of the ‘mediumish’ left. This could challenge the corrupt inefficient and complacent welsh labor party that only does the beckoning of its English masters.
Such a party would be green, just socially, and proud to promote Cymru and her culture
I imagine you’re literally the only person in Wales who would describe the current Plaid Cymru as ‘centre-right’.
Elsewhere I have often criticised this obsession with the left-right dichotomy which really undermines a clear headed analysis of where people and parties stand. However given the usual “normal” usage of the left right linear model I find your dismissal of Plaid as centre right quite funny. Now some of its membership may lie in that part of the spectrum but its leadership group is well into the trendy left ( a.k.a pseudo) cluster which has some core “values” but has become far more wedded to a shifting mix of fashionable causes many of which are totally irrelevant to the… Read more »
Mr Dafis Diflas, as an expert in taking the p**s and calling people Anglos and theatrical trolls ayb I’m trying to work out how old you are! Somebody who uses the term trendy left is obviously someone who was a teenager in the swinging sixties. Your bitterness seeps through your posts. They are like filler. I read over them and I am none the wiser. You are just a sounding board and echo chamber. In relation to the post I can see the room of this hotel already. The Great & the Good of failed Welsh Nationalism. The usual suspects… Read more »
Glad to be of service. You are obviously entertained by what you’ve read. My age should be of no concern to you but suffice to say I’m probably older than you especially as you were still attending Eisteddfodau in early 90’s ! Reading your note the only thing I can detect is that you had a fleeting involvement with Cyfamodwyr at that Eisteddfod. I trust that you have since learned that eisteddfodau should only be consumed in small doses as you are exposed to the risk of mixing with an array of strange people with radical ideas. Keeping looking out… Read more »
re plaid cymru: i get a millionaire canvassing in my village – Dafydd Iwan – massive car, swankee clothes; another millionaire – i like to call him ‘y Bnr FFred’ could barely be persuaded to look the lumpen proletariat in the eye in his AM office in Caernarfon. Just before the 1997 election, Dafydd Wigley (who isn’t a bad old duffer) had in his election time leaflet that a sum of about £2.50 per haour was a ‘fair and living income’. Tory Blair then introduced minimum wage at ca £4.50 an hour. Whole council estates of people will not vote… Read more »
The problem with people like you Sianiflewog is the age old Welsh one of the ‘crab mentality’. Look it up! It’s fine for the English Tony Bliar to be well on his way probably being a billionaire but woe betide if one of your own excels and even manages a small fraction of such riches.
For me the political spectrum runs from “Populists” – who freely peddle easy answer, to “Pragmatists” – who recognise that there are only a limited number of choices that will actually deliver the greatest good for the greatest many sustainably and those options all involve harnessing the talents and energies of individuals within appropriate frameworks –organisations, nations and international bodies. I see the nation state as being charged with an absolute duty to promote indigenous cultures and ideas within its borders for the purpose of human diversity, tolerance and respect and through this unique vision of the world so created… Read more »
Any new party should consider the unifying (and revolutionary) power of music. I suggest using ‘Va pensiero, sull’alli dorate’ from Nabucco by the sainted Verdi as a good exemplar. It worked for the Italians!
This article is unfair. Royston has agreed to facilitate a meeting to discuss a new Welsh Political party, and has said that, apart from facilitating the meeting, he will take no further part. The meeting could decide that a new party is a bad idea. It could decide to create a Welsh National Communist Party; it could create a new Liberal National Party (Cymru Fydd 2), or it could (but is unlikely to) create a Welsh Fascist party. Lets see what happens before we pre-judge and condem! The one thing that tickles me is the constant complaint that Plaid Cymru… Read more »
Good to see this point being made Alwyn. Yes, from discussions I’ve been involved in from time to time, I know that Leanne is serious about independence and, unlike some of her predecessors, isn’t afraid to talk about it directly. The difference between her and some of her detractors out there is that she approaches it from a resolutely practical, real world perspective, and is no less radical for that.
Well, if this discussion shows anything, it reveals the significant discontent with the electoral choices we are presently forced to make. The last few times it has really been the case that a “none of the above” option was sorely lacking in our elections. Plaid stealing Labour’s red clothes has meant there is little to choose between them and the Conservatives and Liberals have had nothing to say about the future of Wales (lets not even bother about UKIP’s Welsh agenda). This can’t go on, it leads to stagnation of our political life and I for one hope that this… Read more »
The simple solution to this is a sensible proportional representation system for Westminster, and possibly also a revised Welsh system, which allows smaller parties to exist and be represented.
To an extent, whatever we do in Wales, whilst most minds are focussed on the perverted Westminster system, the party politics we have at present will remain broken.