The man of many faces: Mark Lewis Jones at 60

Leon Barton

Mark Lewis Jones is an actor whose face you probably know even if the name is unfamiliar.

Born and raised in the village of Rhosllanerchrugog, just outside Wrexham, he’s rarely been out of work in the near-four decades he’s been a professional actor but it’s really in the last few years that his career has gone into overdrive.

His credits read like a list of most of the iconic television shows of recent times: The Crown, Outlander, Game of Thrones, Chernobyl, Keeping Faith, Baby Reindeer and many, many more. And that’s without mentioning the movies; from his small but memorable role as First Order Captain Moden Canady in Star Wars: The Last Jedi through to taking the lead in recent Canadian film Sweetland and plenty more inbetween.

But working in Wales and in the Welsh language is clearly also important to him (he mentions the 2022 S4C drama Dal Y Mellt several times during our interview)

In fact, as it turned out, this interview had to be postponed as Mark was recording something for Radio Cymru to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the Gresford mining disaster (on 22 September 1934, 261 men were killed by an explosion and underground fire at Gresford Colliery, near Wrexham)

Although resident in Cardiff, Lewis Jones is still a regular visitor back north. ‘My family are still there, my closest friends are still there. My Mam’s now in a nursing home in Coedpoeth. My dad is 83. He has a carer but he’s just spent three months staying with us’.

How long have you been in Cardiff?

Well, I came here in 1983 when I’d just turned 19. That was when I first left Rhos. I came here to go to college until 1986. Then worked at Theatr Clwyd and in Mold and Harlech. Then I went to London in 1987 and was there for 27 years. I came back to Cardiff in 2014 and got married. My wife had a house in Canton. I’ve got four kids and they’ve got girlfriends. My dad comes down to visit, my wife’s parents come down, friends come to stay. So, we needed a big house and now we’ve got one! We moved in November.

What have you got planned for your 60th this weekend?

Um…right! Three of my four sons will be here. One of them lives in Australia. We’ll have a barbeque on the day I think. Some friends are coming over. It’s all a bit hush hush. And then we’re going away in September for two weeks. Me, my wife and the boys with their girlfriends. Doing lots of bits. We’ll do something in north Wales at some point too. Lots of little events, not one big party. I don’t drink so parties are always a bit tricky for those who don’t drink but I’ve got used to it over the years.

It is strange, sixty. You must be in your forties?

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Maybe you don’t feel young but I can assure you that you are! So, anyway, I really enjoyed my fifties and I’m sure I’ll enjoy my sixties. But it does feel different, like you’re well over halfway.

Somebody asked yesterday ‘do you feel physically different?’ I really don’t. I still do loads of exercise, I did an IronMan last year. I guess I’ve looked after myself through my forties and fifties so I feel just as fit as I did ten years ago. So the intention is to carry on really. I’m not making any concessions at this point, that’s my promise to myself.

Ten years ago I did Marathon des Sables, it’s like six marathons over six days out on the Sahara. I was fifty then but there was a Frenchman there who was around 76, 77 and he finished. I thought ‘that’s what I want’ Without him knowing it he really inspired me. When you’re in this world of marathons and triathlons you see lots of people in their Sixties so there’s absolutely no reason to stop whatsoever. Unless you get ill or something.

I’ve got a bike up on a stand in this new house and I try to get out on that most days. I’ll head out after this interview in fact.

I’ll try not to keep you too long then! Tell me about doing the IronMan last year

I tried to do one in 2018 and failed but last year was my first completed one. The Welsh one is really tough. The bike course is brutal. In 2018 I did the swim and the bike ride and about half the run. I thought ‘I think I can do this…I just need to do more training’ So I did and it was lovely to complete it. Tough though – it took me sixteen and a half hours! It was a tough day and a tough night. But I just wanted to get through it no matter how long it took.

So physically you’re obviously in good shape but professionally you seem to be in good shape too. Tell me if I’m wrong but it feels as though the last 15, 20 years have been the peak of your career really?

I think certainly in the last ten it’s gone to a different level. The specific stuff. The Crown was a specific moment really and as a result of The Crown I did Outlander. One thing leads to another. And then I did a film in Newfoundland called Sweetland because The Crown was so huge worldwide. So many people watched it.

And then things in Wales, like The Passing (Yr Ymadawiad) and getting the Bafta Cymru award for that. The Lighthouse, that was around ten years ago. I mean, I’ve always been busy, I’ve been very fortunate in that respect. There have been slightly leaner times but not a great deal and not in the last decade. Until this year really, post-strike. Everyone was saying it was quiet at the beginning of this year but I’ve been busy since.

And there’s been a good variety of stuff as well. Stuff in Wales, stuff over the border. It’s always been important to keep a foot in both camps… although I don’t really see them as two camps. Welsh-speaking parts as well like Dal Y Mellt for S4C.

Did you grow up speaking Welsh at home?

Rhos is a funny place. In the Sixties and Seventies when I was growing up there was a lot of Welsh spoken but we generally spoke English at home. But I went to a Welsh-speaking school, Morgan Llwyd. And we had Grandparents who spoke Welsh to us. There was always a lot of Welsh around. So I grew up bilingually really.

From what age did you want to be an actor?

Well, I got awarded a fellowship at the university in Wrexham so I talked about this recently. I had a teacher at Morgan Llywd called Gwawr Mason – she later became Davies – and she was the person really. She asked me to do a play at school when I was about 16. And for some reason I said yes and it totally changed my life. Before that I had no inclination whatsoever and I’m convinced that had that teacher not been at that school when I was there and our paths hadn’t crossed I wouldn’t have become an actor. It just wouldn’t have occurred to me. There wasn’t anything in my family whatsoever. Nothing. My dad and both my brothers are joiners and it was obvious to everyone, including me, that I wasn’t going to go down that route. So I don’t know what I’d have done if it wasn’t for that moment.

And then, there was a great youth theatre in Clwyd at the time so I went there. Did a residential course and then stayed in the youth theatre for three years before going to drama school. We did loads of stuff – Theatr Clwyd, travelling and touring. It was an amazing experience and I had no doubt then that I’d found what I wanted to do. Even though, professionally, I had no idea what it meant to be an actor. But I didn’t want to do anything else and I haven’t done anything else. I’ve been acting professionally for 38 years.

Was Rhys Ifans doing youth theatre in Clwyd at that time too?

Yeah, we did youth theatre together and I could immediately see he had something. Immediately. I think he was only 15 or 16 and I would have been 19, coming to the end of my stint in youth theatre when he was starting and he stood out straight away. We’ve remained friends ever since and have worked together a few times. We did Under Milk Wood at the National Theatre in the mid-90s. And Volpone with Michael Gambon. And we did the Mark Rylance film The Phantom of the Open together a few years back. It’s been no surprise to me that Rhys has been as successful as he is.

What was your early career like after leaving college?

I did a ton of theatre. When I was at drama school the idea was, to become an actor, you go and do theatre. Now, I think it’s to get on a Netflix series. But back then there were only a few TV channels so it was do theatre and the odd bit of telly. There wasn’t enough telly to go round.

I did three years at the Royal Shakespeare Company, two years at The National Theatre, two Globe seasons. There was a great company called Opera Factory who I worked with who were a bit more avant-garde.

Then I got more TV work and started to fall in love with that and film. Without really making that decision, I slowly started to move towards that. There was a lot more being made and good stuff as well. Loads of stuff in Wales too. Like, one of the big turning points for me was a series called The Bench for BBC Wales. I had a great part in that and it was 2 long series’ so that was a great opportunity to be in front of the camera every day for months.

My very first job on camera was with Anthony Hopkins on a thing called Heartland. A BBC One drama in 1988. He was a great big star then but he hadn’t won his Oscar yet, it was a couple of years before Silence of the Lambs. It was about farmers, EU milk quotas. He was wonderful, he really was. Just watching him, the way he would gently drift into scenes. To be really relaxed, breathing out. It was wonderful to watch. I learnt a hell of a lot in such a short space of time being with someone who was so at ease in front of the camera.

One of his techniques is to learn his lines so thoroughly that he almost knows them inside out, back to front. Is that something you took on board too?

Funnily enough he mentioned that to me and he said to me if he has a big speech he has to be able to say it twenty times without hesitation, without tripping over words. The next thing I did was a film with Angela Lansbury called The Shell Seekers. And I had a speech so I thought, tell you what, I’ll do that thing that Tony Hopkins taught me, I’ll do it twenty times. And when it got to the day, I had a big scene on a beach with Sophie Ward and I couldn’t do it, I went blank! But after that, I have been using that technique. Like really learning the lines to a point where you’re kind of liberated from them. I just walk around and around the island in my house doing my lines, a bit like that scene in Midnight Express. I think it goes to a different part of the memory, not just at the front. And it really does help. Funnily enough, it helps you take your time. I think when you don’t know your lines as well as you should you can almost do things too quickly so really knowing them allows you space.

You’ve been incredibly busy in recent times in mainly supporting roles. But would you like to play more leading roles?

I suppose, in a nutshell, if I do a big production, generally I’m in a supporting role, and sometimes in Wales I do play more leading roles. Although I did play the lead in the film Sweetland. The character is in every single scene. It’s about him. And I do love it, I have to say, I do love leading roles. I think they can co-exist. I love the responsibility of leading roles – telling the story through that person. But creating characters is also really lovely. In my fifties the ones that spring to mind are The Reckoning – the Jimmy Saville thing – and playing the dad in Baby Reindeer recently. And Outlander as well. When I read a script, sometimes the supporting roles are the most interesting characters.

You mentioned Baby Reindeer. I watched it last night in one sitting…

In one sitting? Oh my God, you must be feeling quite disturbed this morning?

I couldn’t stop watching! You’re only in a few scenes but playing the lead character’s Dad seemed like a great part?

It was great to do. Sadly, we actually filmed a lot that didn’t end up on the screen but that’s just the way things are. But what remains is essentially what I saw on the page when I first read it, which is that this character has such a range. And even though they cut a lot, what’s left is what’s appealing about it; the way he speaks to Martha on the phone and then his own personal reveal. That’s a classic example of supporting roles sometimes being the most interesting characters.

The character in The Reckoning was such a decent man and playing decent is sometimes one of the hardest things. Playing evil, psychopaths and things like that – you’ve got a lot to hang your hat on and when you play someone who gets caught up in this horrendous world through his own decency it was a really interesting part to play. You just have to play him as a good man caught up in this hell.

Outlander also springs to mind. My character, Tom Christie, starts up so uptight then there’s a great journey through those nine episodes where he confesses his love to Claire and really sacrifices himself. It was a wonderful arc. And even though Sam (Heughan) and Caitriona (Balfe) are the obvious leads, I had such a lovely story with the two of them. That was great to do.

Are you ready to meet the Christies?

First things first, I’m thrilled to welcome @marklewisjones as Tom Christie, a fellow Ardsmuir prisoner and devout Protestant who arrives on Fraser’s Ridge seeking a place to settle… though not without some tension. #Outlander pic.twitter.com/ikb3cFpfbF

— Outlander (@Outlander_STARZ) March 19, 2021

I was converted into an Outlander fan by my wife, who, like most women, has a thing for Sam Heughan. So if you could tell me something incriminating about him – like, he’s got bad breath or he’s really mean to old people or something, that would be great…

He’s a lovely man, so I’m afraid not, haha!

Damn. Another big appeal of the show are the amazing locations. What was the experience of filming like?

It was shot during lockdown. 2021, the first season I did. The studios are between Glasgow and Edinburgh and then we went up to the Trossachs, and had a week in Glencoe as well. I love working in Scotland. It was beautiful, just as beautiful as it looks on screen. I loved that job. The show has such great production values – there are some amazing people involved in making it.

So even though it’s supposed to be North Carolina you didn’t actually go out to America to film?!

No! It was all Scotland but it looks like North Carolina. Jamie and Claire’s big house with the stream running through it is near The Trossachs. And all the interiors are done elsewhere. Sorry to spoil that for you!

Might Tom Christie be back? He’s still alive.

He’s still alive isn’t he? But I think the series is coming to an end soon… it’s had a good run, over a decade now.

But to come back to your question about leading parts versus supporting parts that was kind of a big supporting part for that block. Really a great character and that’s what’s keeping me as enthusiastic as I’ve ever been really. If I look at The Red King, The Reckoning, Outlander, Men Up, Baby Reindeer, Keeping Faith, Dal Y Mellt…they’re all great characters. Great characters. And I did a series last year with Martin Clunes called Out There which is coming out in the winter or early next year and I think that’s going to be great. It’s set on a farm in the border country – the Abergavenny, Brecon area.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens now in my Sixties. Let’s see how it pans out over the next ten years. You’ll have to come back and do another one of these when I’m 70!

Maybe your career will go to another level again?!

Well, I just think ‘continuity’…just continue working. Men Up was lovely, a really good script. They were all good parts in that. It really touched a nerve I think. It was fun but had an underlying message as well. Not about viagra but about men being unable to talk, really.

I have to admit I haven’t seen Men Up but I will go back and watch it. I went to see The Last Jedi at the cinema though. I didn’t know you were in it and when you popped up on screen I turned to my wife and said ‘that bloke’s from Wrexham!’ …I think it would be remiss of me to not talk about being in a Star Wars film whilst interviewing someone who was in a Star Wars film.

So they were casting for the one before it – The Force Awakens – and everyone I knew was going up for parts in that. There was no script, it was all hugely secretive. Lot’s of friends of mine went along. Casting suite. They give you a script and say ‘these aren’t the actual lines from the film but they’re similar’ So you learn these 2 or 3 lines, go into a room and say them to camera. So I did that and I heard nothing. And nobody else heard anything, so I forgot all about it. But when it came to the next one, I was just offered this part – Captain Canady.

They must have kept a list from that first audition. I didn’t know anything about it, wasn’t sent a script. I went to a costume fitting and was given the lines on that day. About 13 or 14 lines. When you get in costume you then have to put a disguise over it to conceal it just incase someone wants to take pictures. It’s very odd. And that was the whole of Pinewood studios. But I thought (writer/director) Rian Johnson was fabulous. I kept having to go back just to do two or three close ups. But having 14 lines was great because they would have some quite famous actors playing stormtroopers! People were saying ‘thank God a First Order general knows what he’s talking about!’ but I didn’t know what they were talking about!

But when you have a lovely director like Rian Johnson it suddenly feels the same as any other job. The sharp end remains the same and you forget it’s such a big production.

It was a great experience. I went to see it at the cinema near Taffs Wells – Nantgarw – with my son and his friends and their dads. I was chuffed to bits to be in it even though I’m not a Star Wars fan.

I really liked that film because I thought they did something a bit different with it. I thought The Force Awakens was a bit of a dull rehash of the original 1977 film but the mega-fans seemed to want that.. and lots took against The Last Jedi because it was a bit different…

I have a theory that the people who aren’t such big Star Wars fans love that film and the big fans didn’t. Because, yeah, they thought it went against the grain or whatever.

If people recognise you on the street in Cardiff, what do they recognise you for?

In Wales, Keeping Faith and Stella are the two big ones. The success of Keeping Faith was phenomenal. There were two versions, shot back to back. It went out on S4C first, then on BBC One Wales but loads of people were downloading it, watching the Welsh language version with subtitles. It was huge. Cabbies say to me, ‘where’s Evan?!’

But now, it’s ‘oh, that’s that actor who’s in lots of things’. People say ‘what have I seen you in?’ I don’t know what to say…’Keeping Faith?’ ‘No, it’s not that!’

People mention Gangs of London, The Crown, more recently Baby Reindeer. Gangs of London was big because it was released during the first lockdown. The April/May of 2020. Loads of people watched that because there was nothing else to do.

If there’s one part that you’re most proud of, or one project, what would it be?

The Crown. It was a great part, playing Tedi Millward. It was beautifully written by James Graham. Josh O’Connor had just started as Prince Charles and they were just lovely scenes to do. It almost felt like a piece of theatre. Funnily enough, I’ve just been working with the costume designer from The Crown on something else and she said to me ‘when you and Josh were doing those scenes we were all watching as if we were watching a piece of theatre’. And it felt like that. Big scenes, beautifully constructed, these two characters from opposing worlds. Drawing a comparison between Prince Charles within the royal family and Wales at that time – how Wales had been treated. It was such a brilliant idea about these two very different men finding some common ground. And it wasn’t in palaces or anything like that. It was in Wales – Aberystwyth and Caernarfon.

That episode felt like a standalone one. Whenever I’m asked that question, that’s the one that springs to mind.

Do you think The Crown has raised awareness of Wales around the world?

Absolutely. Especially the way they used the Welsh language. Right down to the title of the episode;Tywysog Cymru. Netflix paid such respect to the language, to the stories, to Wales. They did such a lovely job with the Aberfan episode in that series too. People said it at the time; it’s a shame it’s taken Netflix to really put the Welsh language out there in the world.

So I think all that’s left for me to say at this point is diolch yn fawr and Penblwydd Hapus. Thanks so much.

Hey, what a start to the season for Wrexham??

Yes, let’s talk football! Amazing start to the season to get 7 points from the first three games without Paul Mullin. Although, he came on at the weekend didn’t he?

He played twenty minutes at the weekend. And y’know what, I’m glad we’re out of the Carabao Cup, never gonna win it and you never know, carry on like we are and we could easily be in the play offs.

I’m not ruling out automatic promotion…
(…our football conversation then carried on for several more minutes…!)