‘Rejoice’, says gay archbishop, ‘in the fact that we are different’

Norena Shopland

When the 15th Archbishop of Wales was enthroned in 2025 at Newport Cathedral it made worldwide headlines – for the Most Reverend Cherry Vann is the first gay archbishop in the world. 

So, as part of LGBTQ+ History Month I visited the Archbishop for a chat. 

As earlier articles have quoted Her Grace saying that people had left the church because she was both a woman and gay, I asked her, ‘how many?’ She replied ‘Not very many, a few when we introduced the blessing of civil partnerships and civil marriages. The big criticism has come from the Global South Churches in Africa and South America. I’ve been called a heretic, apostate, and that my election would be putting people’s souls at risk. I am aware that it’s caused a lot of turmoil in the Anglican community.’ 

I asked what arguments do they give? ‘That we’re going against the will of God, we’re contravening what it says in scripture. We’re living lives of sin by deliberately and intentionally going against God’s Word.’ I remarked upon the apparent hypocrisy of cherry picking, and she agreed, ‘Yes, and we’re all guilty of it. We all like to find things that resonate with our own position, but you know as well as I, that that the church was complicit in apartheid, that the Church backed slavery in past centuries. But we have to remain committed to being what the Bible says to us in our day and in our context. We all bring a particular lens to anything we read, the lens of our upbringing, the lens of our experience, the lens of our particular country. Part of the task of being a Christian is to try and understand what the broad themes of the Bible are, because the gospel, the good news, is about new life and new hope in Jesus Christ. God has gifted us the gift of love, our relationships with one another – a real gift when they’re based in love, mutual, support and faithfulness; and I can’t see why God would condemn a relationship that I believe has been a blessing, not just to me and my partner Wendy, but to other people.’

 Yet it was not until she came to Wales that she came out. ‘There were a lot of people in England who knew,’ she explained, but it was not until her name was suggested as bishop of Monmouth that she decided if accepted it had to be, ‘For who I am, and with my partner. I said to the person who telephoned me you know I am gay; I’m in a civil partnership. She said that’s not a problem. So, I thought well, okay, I’ll allow my name to go forward, so when I was elected it was part of the announcement, and that’s when we came out.’

Did it make a difference? ‘Enormous! I don’t think I realised the degree to which we lived in fear when we were in England. Until I came here, and we felt that we can live openly and honestly and be who we are, and gosh, what a difference! Particularly for Wendy. She’s been very faithful and supportive to me in my ministry, but it had been a sacrifice for her, that we were not able to be a partnership amongst friends and colleagues. So, when we came here, it meant she could come with me to services on a Sunday, we could host people in our house as a couple. That was massive for her. It made all the difference in the world, and she often tells that story.’

If the church was to allow same-sex marriage would she want to get married? ‘We entered a civil partnership for legal reasons so that we were both protected, but Wendy and I feel we married each other many years ago. We don’t feel the need of a ceremony to do that, for us that’s not something important, but I recognise for many it is.’ As for church marriage, ‘I think it is a journey we’re on at the moment,’ she said, ‘and it won’t be my decision and it won’t be the decision of the bishops; it will be the decision of the governing body.’

Trans vicar, Canon Sarah Jones, refers to God as ‘beautifully non-binary,’ did Archbishop Vann, who refers to God as ‘He’, think of God as male? ‘I’ve grown up using that terminology. We have to use language, and I guess because Jesus called God His father, that’s why we primarily refer to God as ‘He,’ but I don’t see God as male. God is beyond gender.’ 

If the worse was to happen and those with far-right attitudes took control of the Welsh Government, would the Archbishop stand up, would she march at the front of Pride Cymru? ‘I think I would have to, as I do now. It’s not just our rights to be who we are, but other people’s rights being eroded. It’s incumbent on us to use our voice to advocate for human rights, and if we see them being eroded in any way for any group, then we need to stand up. For me, a healthy society is one that can live with difference, and to rejoice in the fact that we are different. I would hate for us as a country in Wales or indeed the UK to start going down that road. We’ve come a long way in terms of embracing difference, and I would hate for that to be to be undermined or changed. And it has to start now. We all know that allowing people like Hitler to gain power didn’t just happen. There are a series of stages, and at every stage it requires people of goodwill standing together, physically standing together, to be seen standing in solidarity with each other for a diverse world.’