Gasps in Senedd as First Minister admits Reform talks

Emily Price

The First Minister’s admission that he had held talks with Reform’s Welsh leader prompted audible gasps and heckling in the Senedd’s chamber this afternoon.

During Questions to the First Minister on Tuesday (June 30), Reform’s leader Dan Thomas pressed Rhun ap Iorweth on which parties he had held discussions with about Plaid Cymru’s upcoming spending plans.

A vote on the supplementary budget worth £294m will be held on 14 July.

The proposals include £100m to bring down Welsh waiting lists as well as £40m for school repairs and £10m for more free meals for secondary school pupils.

With Plaid six seats short of a majority in the Senedd, Mr Ap Iorwerth will need the backing of another party or parties for his plans to pass.

During the Senedd election campaign Plaid’s leader said his party would not work with Reform in the Welsh Parliament.

Mr Thomas asked the First Minister whether there was any scope for compromise in the supplementary budget and whether he would be willing to work with Reform to ensure it passed.

Responding, the First Minister said it shouldn’t come as a surprise that he had already met with Mr Thomas.

Gasps

Mr ap Iorwerth said: “The Member and I have met. Discussions will take place continuously.”

His remarks were met with audible gasps and jeers from some Members of the Senedd, forcing the First Minister to pause.

Mr Ap Iorwerth responded to the reaction with a laugh, but several members of his cabinet beside him remained stony-faced.

The First Minister said: “It really shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody that I have met with all leaders of political parties in this Senedd.

“When I speak of wanting to be a co-operative government, that means having conversations with leaders of Reform, the Conservatives, Labour and the Green Party.

“I’m sorry if that’s come as a surprise to anybody.”

He added: “This isn’t a Government that doesn’t recognise the need to speak across this Chamber.”

Reform’s leader said that although he had welcomed the introductory meeting with the First Minister shortly after the May 7 election, the pair had agreed the wouldn’t discuss policy.

However, Mr Thomas said it was encouraging that Mr Ap Iorwerth had appeared to have “changed his mind” about working with Reform.

‘U-turn’

He said: “During the election, you said you wouldn’t work with us. So, that is a welcome U-turn.

“Our red lines, though, would be to guarantee all student nurses and midwives a job—that would be a red line for us—when they finish their training.

“We would also want to increase spending on children with additional learning needs, and we’d want to stop spending taxpayers’ money abroad and invest that money on the Welsh NHS and Welsh children. So, those are our red lines.”

Mr Thomas later drew laughter from rival parties when he said there had been “hints” that Plaid would reveal a full budget in the autumn.

The Welsh Government traditionally publishes an outline draft budget in the autumn, followed by a final budget in January of the following year.

The First Minister said he would “drop a bombshell” and admit that there would be a full budget from the Welsh Government later this year.

He said: “What we will do as an approach to that budget, as we’ve done now, is lay out, among challenging circumstances, what it is that we hope to achieve on behalf of and for the people of Wales.

“I appreciate that the Member has laid out health as a priority now. It wasn’t mentioned by his party as a priority during the election that we’ve just fought, but I welcome the fact that that is seen as an important area now.

“That is exactly why it has been put front and centre of this supplementary budget, which is very important in order to do that work that we promised the people of Wales we would do, which is to build a sustainable health and care system fit for the future.

“It is up to all Members here to decide if that’s something that they can support in this.”