Gasps in Senedd as First Minister admits Reform talks
Emily Price
The First Minister’s admission that he had held talks with Reform’s Welsh leader prompted audible gasps and heckling in the Senedd’s chamber this afternoon.
During Questions to the First Minister on Tuesday (June 30), Reform’s leader Dan Thomas pressed Rhun ap Iorweth on which parties he had held discussions with about Plaid Cymru’s upcoming spending plans.
A vote on the supplementary budget worth £294m will be held on 14 July.
The proposals include £100m to bring down Welsh waiting lists as well as £40m for school repairs and £10m for more free meals for secondary school pupils.
With Plaid six seats short of a majority in the Senedd, Mr Ap Iorwerth will need the backing of another party or parties for his plans to pass.
During the Senedd election campaign Plaid’s leader said his party would not work with Reform in the Welsh Parliament.
Mr Thomas asked the First Minister whether there was any scope for compromise in the supplementary budget and whether he would be willing to work with Reform to ensure it passed.
Responding, the First Minister said it shouldn’t come as a surprise that he had already met with Mr Thomas.
Gasps
Mr ap Iorwerth said: “The Member and I have met. Discussions will take place continuously.”
His remarks were met with audible gasps and jeers from some Members of the Senedd, forcing the First Minister to pause.
Mr Ap Iorwerth responded to the reaction with a laugh, but several members of his cabinet beside him remained stony-faced.
The First Minister said: “It really shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody that I have met with all leaders of political parties in this Senedd.
“When I speak of wanting to be a co-operative government, that means having conversations with leaders of Reform, the Conservatives, Labour and the Green Party.
“I’m sorry if that’s come as a surprise to anybody.”
He added: “This isn’t a Government that doesn’t recognise the need to speak across this Chamber.”
Reform’s leader said that although he had welcomed the introductory meeting with the First Minister shortly after the May 7 election, the pair had agreed the wouldn’t discuss policy.
However, Mr Thomas said it was encouraging that Mr Ap Iorwerth had appeared to have “changed his mind” about working with Reform.
‘U-turn’
He said: “During the election, you said you wouldn’t work with us. So, that is a welcome U-turn.
“Our red lines, though, would be to guarantee all student nurses and midwives a job—that would be a red line for us—when they finish their training.
“We would also want to increase spending on children with additional learning needs, and we’d want to stop spending taxpayers’ money abroad and invest that money on the Welsh NHS and Welsh children. So, those are our red lines.”
Mr Thomas later drew laughter from rival parties when he said there had been “hints” that Plaid would reveal a full budget in the autumn.
The Welsh Government traditionally publishes an outline draft budget in the autumn, followed by a final budget in January of the following year.
The First Minister said he would “drop a bombshell” and admit that there would be a full budget from the Welsh Government later this year.
He said: “What we will do as an approach to that budget, as we’ve done now, is lay out, among challenging circumstances, what it is that we hope to achieve on behalf of and for the people of Wales.
“I appreciate that the Member has laid out health as a priority now. It wasn’t mentioned by his party as a priority during the election that we’ve just fought, but I welcome the fact that that is seen as an important area now.
“That is exactly why it has been put front and centre of this supplementary budget, which is very important in order to do that work that we promised the people of Wales we would do, which is to build a sustainable health and care system fit for the future.
“It is up to all Members here to decide if that’s something that they can support in this.”
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It’s unlikely they’ll come up with anything sensible but the maths says you need to find out.
Well done, Rhun, for being an honourable gentleman. This is what being a leader is all about.
At least plaid are talking rather than walking.
Never know perhaps Reform will see common sense although I don’t count on it.
I would expect an FM to have conversations will all opposition parties, particularly when they are the main opposition and the Govt is a minority one. They may not agree on anything but he will not find out unless he asks!
It’s not true that a Plaid Cymru budget would need ‘backing’ from another party to pass. It just needs another party to ‘abstain’. Thus depriving another rival in coalition from winning the vote. Contrary to what ReformUK claimed prior to the election Plaid Cymru did not support the Labour budget, just abstained, after getting some concessions. This is how democracy works.
I can’t abide Reform’s policies, but this reaction feels misguided in the new Senedd system that purposely requires consensus and cross-party working to get daily business done. We’ve deliberately moved away from an adversarial, Westminster-style system and parties must accept the days of majority governments doing whatever they want for 4 years are over. Far better for us all to get used to a system where a diversity of views are represented throughout the parliamentary term, rather than the “losers” in an election (who may actually represent the majority of voters) being locked out of decision making. Rhun is doing… Read more »
Ok Nigel.
I hope I won’t be a cursed of being a RhapI fanboy by saying this, but I’ve always thought the Senedd should do things differently to other parliament we know. This is where I may differ from RhapI though. Reform are after all a sizable party within the Senedd and as such, have a considerable amount of support in the population. Where there is common ground PC should seek consensus. It may be that they may have to give a little to gain a lot, but that’s the nature of a minority govt. It’s the mature and sensible way to… Read more »
This isn’t easy for Reform either. A deal with Plaid will upset their Abolish and Tory backers and could trigger a breakup of their alliance. But if Reform back away they reveal themselves as an unserious opposition. And who knows if Nigel will allow it.
I don’t think a deal is in the offing anytime soon. But that’s no reason not to be civil.
Especially as they’ve red lined spending any money overseas, such as promoting Wales to international tourists and investors. It’s like they’re embarrassed by the folks they’re supposed to be representing and want to keep them hidden and improverished in the attic.
Important point. Watch this space.
Oh for goodness sake. The leader of a government cannot simply pretend that the leader of the opposition does not exist in a legislative system where there is an official opposition – tax payer funded and with a recognised constitutional role of responsible scrutiny and holding the government to account. There are purely business, procedural and timetable matters to sort out if you don’t want the Senedd to grind to a halt in even greater disarray than we already see. So to that extent they are obliged to “work together”. It is also wise, especially if you are a minority… Read more »
Fair play, this is a very mature move and hopefully it’ll be the start of the end of the ‘boo hoo Reform suck’ mentality.
You don’t have to like Reform UK (many here don’t) but they were elected as the main opposition by a lot of Welsh people – deriding them and gnashing teeth is not going to change that and if both Rhun and Dan can talk together and be civil then maybe this is the start of a more sensible era of politics.
If only more people could behave in such a way.
Weird to be heckled for something that is… well, necessary. Wales sent a large number of Reform MSs to the Senedd, it would be completely absurd not to respect this.
All Plaid needs are just a couple of votes in support and its done, Plaid doesn’t need the full backing of Reform on anything but it can’t exactly trust Labour, the Greens and the Lib Dems as they are also political opponents, despite press releases.
So accounting for the wishes of about 20% of the welsh voting public seems like a small price to pay for the wider legislative remit.
I actually think this could end up being a highly canny move. Extend the olive branch to Reform, on Plaid’s terms, and if they can’t act with maturity, dignity and professionalism then absolutely rinse them for being incapable of collaborating with other parties for the whole nation’s benefit.
This is what you have to do when you’ve only got 20% or so of the potential public vote.
Using this logic no government ever has a mandate.
Whilst Plaid don’t need Reform at all for their votes and I like many hate their rhetoric, it is obviously the correct decision to talk to them. This isn’t a playground, it’s serious business.
I suspect Reform will prioritise virtue signalling to Nigel over meaningful change for their constituents.
Well done yet again Plaid Cymru,My Party and FMilies Party of Choice.”Plaid Cymru” for our Wales.
Plaid teaching others what grown up politics looks like.
Next step is to get rid of the ridiculous table thumping and jeering from the senedd, there’s a place for monkey’s and it’s called westminster.