Independent councillor claims he was ‘shouted down’ at town council meeting

Richard Evans, Local Democracy Reporter

A councillor has made an official complaint about a political rival who “kept interrupting me” at a council meeting.

Old Colwyn independent councillor David Carr complained to Conwy County Council’s monitoring officer after a row broke out between him and several Labour group members at a Colwyn Bay Town Council meeting in December, leading him to brand the group “toxic”

Cllr Carr claimed he was unable to speak freely at town council meetings, claiming Labour members had been “shouting him down”.

Conwy Group’s Labour leader, Cllr Hannah Fleet, has hit back, claiming the fall out was due to her role as chair intervening and discouraging “irrelevant comments, repetition, or one person talking over another”.

The spats occurred at a town council special meeting about public toilets before Christmas and again last week at a town council policy and finance committee. The latest argument centred around whether a Labour councillor, Chris Hughes, should leave the meeting due to a perceived conflict of interest and a standards committee dispensation being granted. Cllr Hughes has been approached for comment.

Dispute

This led to a dispute between Cllr Carr and Labour councillors. Cllr Carr, a former Labour councillor, said: “I have complained to the monitoring officer about Cllr Hannah Fleet.

“She kept interrupting me. They (the Labour councillors) interrupt you all the time. Apart from anything else, it is bad manners. I never interrupt people. She wouldn’t let me speak, and then she interrupted me again. I was very annoyed about it. I was forced out of the meeting.”

Cllr Carr said he had similar problems at last week’s policy and finance meeting, claiming Hannah Fleet, who chaired the meeting, and another councillor spoke over him.

Cllr Carr, a former Labour group member, hit out at his former colleagues: “The Conwy Labour group is just toxic. People can be so nasty. I don’t want to tar everybody in the Labour Party with that. I wouldn’t do that. I get on well with the Labour councillors in Denbighshire. There is no problem with them.”

Cllr Fleet hit back at Cllr Carr’s claims: “As chair my role is to make sure that the meeting runs smoothly and efficiently. That means I make sure everyone gets a chance to speak on and discuss the merits of each grant as we are choosing how our precept is spent. This also means I will discourage irrelevant comments, repetition, or one person talking over another. It wouldn’t be appropriate for me to discuss any specifics if this is going to be investigated.”

She added: “If Cllr Carr has a complaint, he is able to take this to the monitoring officer. The monitoring officer will speak to those involved. Cllr Carr is very familiar with the procedure.”

Cllr Fleet also responded to Cllr Carr branding the Conwy Labour Group as “toxic”. “Three members of the group have left the Labour Party and therefore the Conwy Council Labour group,” she said.

“All three are on record as saying this was due to disagreements with particular policies at the Westminster level; all three are on record as saying their decision had nothing to do with the Conwy Labour Group, and we continue to all work together in coalition and are even happy to meet for coffee as friends.”

She added: “Cllr Carr left the Labour group early in the administration. His views and attitudes were not aligned with the group. Cllr Carr has since joined or attempted to join several other groups but has failed to remain aligned to any.”

Town council response

A spokeswoman for the town council said: “Bay of Colwyn Town Council is aware of concerns that have been raised following its recent Policy and Finance Committee meeting and recognises that the discussion was challenging for those present.

“The matter before the committee related to events’ funding connected to an organisation with which a serving councillor is a director. While a Standards Committee dispensation had been granted, it became clear during the meeting that the full scope and conditions of that dispensation had not been shared with, or fully understood by all members in advance.

“In light of questions raised about the funding application, and to ensure the highest standards of transparency and governance, the committee took the appropriate decision to defer the item to the next council meeting.

“This will enable members to properly review the further information supplied by the applicant and the full dispensation details, ensuring all councillors have the same information, and will allow the funding application to be considered again in a clear and informed way.”

The clerk

Commenting on the meeting, the Clerk of Bay of Colwyn Town Council said: “This was a complex issue, and once it became clear that further time was needed to consider the information tabled at the meeting, the council acted appropriately to pause the decision and ensure a shared understanding,” she said.

“The chair acted to maintain order and professionalism during what was a difficult debate. The chair’s responsibility is to ensure that council business is conducted appropriately and in accordance with standing orders, particularly where matters of governance and declarations of interest are concerned.”

The clerk added: “The decision to defer the item was taken to protect the integrity of the council’s decision-making and to ensure transparency, fairness, and public confidence.”

Colwyn Bay Town Council said it was “committed to maintaining respectful conduct, robust but fair debate, and public confidence in its decision-making” and that “any complaints made will be considered through the appropriate processes”. The town council also added it would “reflect on the meeting to identify any learning to improve how complex governance matters are handled in future”.

A spokeswoman for Conwy County Council commented: “The council has an adopted local resolution procedure for dealing with complaints between councillors. Alternatively, a councillor may make a complaint to the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales if they consider another councillor has breached the Members’ Code of Conduct. We do not comment on specific complaints.”