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People of Wales ‘involuntary inmates’ in the UK union, says Plaid Cymru leader

23 Nov 2022 4 minute read
The people of Wales are ‘involuntary inmates’ in the UK Union, Plaid Cymru’s Westminster leader Liz Saville Roberts has said. Main Picture by Reinhold Möller (CC BY-SA 4.0). Lower inset picture: Dafydd Tomos (CC BY-SA 4.0).

The people of Wales are ‘involuntary inmates’ in the UK Union, Plaid Cymru’s Westminster leader has said.

Liz Saville Roberts MP made the comment in the House of Commons after the UK Supreme Court unanimously decided that the Scottish Government does not have the power to call an independence referendum.

Labour does not support another referendum on Scottish independence, Sir Keir Starmer’s spokesperson has said.

Liz Saville Roberts MP said: “The Tryweryn vote in 1957 taught people in Wales that Welsh MPs can always be over-ridden by the structural tyranny of the majority here in Westminster.

“The First Minister of Wales, Mark Drakeford, himself a unionist, is on record saying that the United Kingdom can only be sustained as a ‘voluntary association of four nations in which we choose to pool our sovereignty for common purposes and for common benefits’.

“Given the Labour front bench has parroted the same lines as the Tories this afternoon – will he [Secretary of State for Scotland] write to the First Minister of Wales to confirm whether we are voluntary partners in this union, or involuntary inmates?”

Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack responded saying: “No, I won’t be writing to the First Minister of Wales. I’ll leave that to the Secretary of State for Wales or anyone else who feels that’s in their remit. Polling shows that less than a third of Scots want another independence referendum.”

‘Question of democracy’

There is now a “massive question of democracy” that needs to be answered, the SNP has claimed.

In an urgent question, SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford told the Commons: “It is right that the UK Government answers questions today and answers them quickly because this morning the Supreme Court dealt with the question of law. There is now a massive question of democracy.

“Some of the Westminster parties are already wildly celebrating this morning’s decision. But I think it is safe to say that their thoughtless triumphalism won’t last very long because this judgment raises profound and deeply uncomfortable questions about the basis of the future of the United Kingdom.

“The biggest question of all is how the Prime Minister can ever again repeat the myth that the United Kingdom is a voluntary union of nations?”

Mr Blackford referenced the Smith Commission set up in the wake of the 2014 independence referendum, quoting that is said nothing could “prevent Scotland becoming an independent country should the people of Scotland so choose”.

He asked: “If his Government is still committed to that promise, will he urgently amend the Scotland Act to ensure that the Scottish people have the right to choose our own future?”

‘Not equals’

SDLP leader Colum Eastwood said the UK is “not a partnership of equals” and called on the Government to set out how “the north of Ireland can leave”.

The MP said in the Commons: “This United Kingdom is clearly not a partnership of equals. That has been made absolutely clear today.

“So, when will this Government publish clear criteria for how the people of the north of Ireland can leave this United Kingdom?”

Scotland Secretary Alister Jack replied: “I suggest the honourable gentleman ask that question in Northern Ireland questions.”

Bill of Rights

Welsh Secretary David TC Davies has dismissed calls for Wales and Scotland be given the “right to self-determination” in the UK Government’s proposed Bill of Rights.


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Rhufawn Jones
Rhufawn Jones
13 days ago

Unfortunately the majority of Welsh people suffer from 800 years of psychological drip feed resulting in Stockholm Syndrome and embracing a co-dependant relationship.

This is a battle for souls, hearts and minds. And John Bull is angry…

Riki
Riki
13 days ago
Reply to  Rhufawn Jones

Spot on, The Welsh have forgotten this is battle we have been waging on this island for over a Thousand Years, We have forgotten because they don’t send tanks down the M4 like Russia is currently doing. It’s A Battle none the less and you hit the nail on the head, it’s a War for the hearts and minds of future generations. They love nothing more than a Cymro who has turned his back on his nation.

Crwtyn Cemais
Crwtyn Cemais
13 days ago
Reply to  Rhufawn Jones

Mae cynnwys hanes Cymru fel pwnc craidd – o’r diwedd(!) – yng nghwricwlwm ysgolion Cymru yn gam cyntaf tuag at ddad-wneud y ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ rydych yn cyfeirio ato, Rhufawn. Amser a ddengys faint mor gyflym bydd e’n cael dylanwad ar hunaniaeth genedlaethol plant Cymru. ~ Including – finally(!) – the teaching of Welsh history as a core subject in Welsh schools’ curriculum is a first step towards undoing the ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ you refer to Rhufawn. Time will tell how quickly it will influence the national identity of Wales’ children.

Rhufawn Jones
Rhufawn Jones
13 days ago
Reply to  Crwtyn Cemais

Ni allaf ond obeithio eich bod yn gywir. Fe gymerodd ganrifoedd lawer i’n darostwng – a’r gwaith hwnnw’n dla yn mynd rhagddo. Fe gymer cenedlaethau lawer i godi Cymru glwyfedig yn ôl ar ei thraed.

Gareth
Gareth
13 days ago

A Tory bill of rights, dont make me laugh. Will it contain the right for people to protest and voice, aloud , various objections on the streets ? The Celtic country’s are only equal to England, when England are in control, when the ” do as I say, not do as I do” attitude prevails. Hypocrisy, and the Colonialist “we know best” attitude is as strong in them as it has ever been.

David Zenati-Parsons
David Zenati-Parsons
13 days ago

What is sovereignty and why might it be important to some countries and not others?
Sovereignty is the bedrock of international relations. The concept lays out basic rules for how countries are allowed to interact with one another. In principle, it means countries get to control what happens inside their borders and can’t interfere in what happens elsewhere. After this Judgement I would argue that the UK is now legally England #IndyWales #PlaidCymru how do you feel I know I am pissed.

Riki
Riki
13 days ago

I find the weirdest thing to be….Why other nations including Russia never use this as a stick to hit over the head of The UK! Other nations are literally crying over what Russia are doing yet totally fine for England to deny sovereignty for Wales and Scotland.

Windy
Windy
13 days ago

It now seems that for the Celtic nations you now read Cymrushire, Scotshire and Irelshire along with Yorkshire, lancashire and the rest of the counties that make up these
Islands

Riki
Riki
13 days ago

Absolutely they are! So now refuse to send MPs to take seats in Englands Parliament. We need to take a stand against the English dominance and Monopoly over this island. And Abroad! Have Plaid Cymru really only just realised that England sees Wales and Scotlands only right to exist is for when it comes time for them to serve England?

Stephen Owen
Stephen Owen
13 days ago

Yma o hyd 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

Steve A Duggan
Steve A Duggan
13 days ago

We all know the other countries of the British Isles are not treated as equals by Westminster – that is no secret. Wales was conquered – it has never ever given its consent to any form of union. Now is the time for change – the Union has never worked for Wales and it never will do. We must forge our own future as an independent country.

Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
13 days ago
Reply to  Steve A Duggan

Here’s the thing though. Wales conquered England. At Bosworth Field to put Henri Tiwdr on the throne. HE merged the countries and sold out the nation that handed him the crown

Connoisseur of Understatement
Connoisseur of Understatement
13 days ago

Are you conflating Harri Tudur with his son Henry VIII? As you might expect for a man who had his own wife beheaded, Henry VIII did indeed sell out Wales — he legislated it out of political existence (and ejected Cymraeg from public life) with his Laws in Wales Acts of 1535 & 1542. Harri Tudur is an enigma, but he may have done Wales some transient good in his short reign. His first son (who died young) was named Arthur, which looks like a nod to his Welsh supporters and family background. He put his Welsh uncle in charge… Read more »

Last edited 13 days ago by Connoisseur of Understatement
Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
12 days ago

Nope. BOTH sold us out. Like all “nobles” have done to Cymru, whether domestic or foreign. Never about nation to them. Just about family legacy and personal power. Those that control the nation control the narrative and history is merely a set of lies agreed upon. But if you dig, you see the truth. Henri Tiwdr sold us out just like fat Henry 8. CYMRU won the Battle of Bosworth and defeated England. Then Henri did what was expedient for his family. Arthur MIGHT have been less of a traitor to the nation who won his self interested father the… Read more »

Last edited 12 days ago by Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
Riki
Riki
12 days ago

Spot on, and this is why the Welsh didn’t rebel like the Irish, as in their mind Henry Tudor was the Mab Darogan. This is a little piece of Welsh history that’s conveniently left out when discussing these people. It was indeed a conquest of England by Wales as it was Autonomous as of 1400. The Annexation also proves it’s Autonomy, as you wouldn’t annex Land that was already legally yours. It shows the Tudors had no Right to Wales.

Argol fawr!
Argol fawr!
13 days ago

Love the analogy. Brilliant!

Llefain
Llefain
13 days ago

Time for parties in Cymru to look up the laws as regards colonies. We were not “included” in the same way as Scotland. This ruling may well not have the same sway over our future options as awful as it is. Whatever side of the independence debate you are on this position is disgusting and the “UK” is exposed as no more than England’s mini empire. It is what it is. Cope. Enjoy that subservience and disrespect if you want. I personally think all countries, nations, and peoples should have the right to self-determination and democracy. Even the Scots and… Read more »

Gwyn Hopkins
13 days ago

Currently, England’s enormous majorities and dominance in the House of Commons is starkly illustrated by the huge percentages of English MPs in: (i) Parliament 82.0%, (ii) the ruling Tory Party 94.5%, (iii) the opposition Labour Party 88.7%. These all represent England voters and, as the House of Commons has the power to deny (or accede to) the Scottish Government conducting an independent referendum, the people of England effectively have the power to determine whether or not the people of Scotland (and Wales) can decide their own political future. This is an absolutely outrageous situation – and a classical colonialist one at… Read more »

Mab Meirion
Mab Meirion
13 days ago

It is no coincidence that I vote for you Liz…there is something of Buddug about you…

Llyn
Llyn
13 days ago

Fun related fact – the Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party called last year’s Senedd elections a referendum on devolution.

I Wright
I Wright
13 days ago

Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack: “Polling shows that less than a third of Scots want another independence referendum.”

There have been numerous polls and I’ve never seen one that reflects that comment. Unionists seem to think the truth is whatever they say it is.

DAI Ponty
DAI Ponty
13 days ago

Tory government do not even treat their own people as equals there is London and the south east of england and the rest of england are not treated the same so what bloody chance have Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland got

Owain Morgan
Owain Morgan
13 days ago

Sinn Fein are the largest party in terms of representation at Stormont. 40 years ago they didn’t have an elected legislator in the North of Ireland. Their way did and does work. Bad comparison on your part. As for Plaid Cymru, they’re following the SNP’s lead and they are by far the largest party in Scotland in terms of membership and elected representation. Hardly ‘absurd and counter-productive rhetoric’? On the contrary I’d say it is accurate and productive campaigning. 😄

Philip Davies
Philip Davies
12 days ago
Reply to  Owain Morgan

It is unclear, owing to the highly tendentious editorial policies of NC, whether your comment is, in fact, a response to a suppressed one of mine. But certainly, I had used the phrase, ‘absurd and counter-productive rhetoric’ to describe here the false dichotomy
raised by the leader of Plaid Cymru, as between ‘voluntary partners’ and
‘involuntary inmates’. Although any discussion of the matter is evidently impossible in such a radically biased separatist context, I will still insist here upon expressing my reasonable disapproval of the political hyperbole which typically appeals to the NC’s contributors.

Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
12 days ago
Reply to  Philip Davies

” … highly tendentious editorial policies of NC …”
Please elucidate upon this verbose piece of sophistic flim-flammery.
Nary a personage here is dazzled by dubious Etonian rhetoric. We are all here equipped with extensive lexicons sufficient to determine the bombastic diversionary stratagems of the ideologically motivated, adequately educated but strategically bereft underlings of a morally bankrupt autocratic regime

Philip Davies
Philip Davies
11 days ago

I’ve never been near any public school! Your fatuous assumption and illiterate attempt at satire is pathetic. Your sneering contempt for opinions other than your own typifies most of what now passes for political discussion. Be assured that my contempt for the likes of you is just as cordial. Elucidation would be wasted on someone who evidently lacks both the education and the intelligence required to engage in serious debate. I’ll just leave you to your fatuous little mutual-admiration society.

Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
10 days ago
Reply to  Philip Davies

Most hilarious rage-quit I’ve seen in a while. 😂😂😂

Leigh Richards
Leigh Richards
13 days ago

Yesterday’s decision in the London court effectively rendered the votes of people in Scotland, Wales and the north of Ireland worthless. It means that no matter how the people of Scotland and Wales vote those two countries can never be independent without Westminster’s approval – it also means the people of the north of ireland can never be re-united with the rest of ireland without Westminster’s approval (which is also a clear violation of the GFA). Whatever anyone’s stance on scottish and welsh independence and irish reunification im sure everyone would accept this cannot be right and this is a… Read more »

Last edited 13 days ago by Leigh Richards
Riki
Riki
12 days ago
Reply to  Leigh Richards

And yet no other nation comes to our defence! Weird that huh? I wonder what these other nations are getting for their cooperation.

Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
12 days ago
Reply to  Riki

Everyone’s got their own stuff to deal with. Plus we don’t need anyone else’s help. We just need to shed ourselves of Unionist hindrance.
England’s a big old baby to carry on our backs.
Asking will get us nowhere. Putting faith in the Unionist parties to eventually change or give us repackaged Unionism will get us nowhere. Let’s just do what we want and challenge them to stop us

Riki
Riki
12 days ago

Unfortunately people leave out the fact that the Rules of independence are different for Wales and Scotland. Wales, unlike Scotland was illegally annexed, meaning Wales became a part of The UK under duress, which makes all laws there after void. All Wales has to do is remove support to see the English Royals as their heads of State. Scotland has to go thru the Legal means England have created because they are Legally Joined to England.

Philip Davies
Philip Davies
12 days ago

The people of Wales are ‘involuntary inmates’ in the UK Union, Plaid Cymru’s Westminster leader has said.’ Of course, ‘inmate’ means ‘‘a person who is kept in a prison or a hospital for people who are mentally ill’. I tried to comment regarding this hysterical, extremist and entirely counter-productive rant, but I’m afraid that only the faithful need hope for the inclusion of their views in this narrowly separatist Forum.

JAD
JAD
12 days ago
Reply to  Philip Davies
Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
Y Tywysog Lloegr a Moscow
12 days ago
Reply to  Philip Davies

Too many adjectives. One per noun is sufficient. Three adjectives to a noun is just hysteria.
The disUnited English Occupation of GB & NI is a prison, that Cymru, Alba and Gogledd Eire are not permitted to leave.

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