Petition calling for referendum on Senedd reforms reaches almost 10k signatures
Emily Price
A Senedd petition calling for a referendum on plans to increase the Welsh Parliament by a third has reached almost 10,000 signatures.
Started by Nanette Davies, the petition titled ‘We feel there should be a Referendum before the Senedd has a further 36 members’ will continue gathering signatures until April 2025.
The petition states: ” The Senedd costs a lot of money. Local Authorities are struggling with funding. We don’t feel that more money should be wasted on Members of the Senedd when we need improvements to NHS , Education and Social Care.
“Local Authorities are so cash strapped that they cannot deliver services. Waiting lists are endless. Elderly are bed blocking hospitals because of the lack of care homes and carers.”
It was shared on X, formerly Twitter, by Welsh Conservative MS Tom Giffard who pointed out it is only a few signatures short 10,000.
If it surpasses this target the Petitions Committee will consider asking for a debate in the Chamber – although this is not guaranteed.
Power
Controversial plans agreed by the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru to increase the number of MSs from 60 to 96 and change how they are elected got final approval earlier this year.
The landmark legislation will see the maximum number of Welsh Government ministers increase to 17 – not including the first minister and counsel general – with powers to further increase to 19.
Supporters of the plan say the Senedd’s expansion will strengthen opposition members’ ability to hold Welsh ministers accountable for their decisions.
The Welsh Government’s former chief legal adviser, Mick Antoniw said Welsh democracy has grown, developed and matured over the past 25 years.
‘Short changed’
The Senedd currently only has around 42 backbenchers available to both scrutinise the government and legislate.
It’s argued that this number of MSs cannot fill all the committee seats needed to deliver a properly functioning parliament.
Plaid Cymru Leader Rhun ap Iorwerth says the reforms will ensure “that the people of Wales are no longer democratically short-changed”.
The Welsh Government says increasing the number of MSs could cost up to £17.5m in a typical year – around 0.07% of the £24bn total annual Welsh budget.
The Senedd Commission has also requested an extra £12m to fund the infrastructure changes needed to make room for more MSs.
Extra cash
The money will be used to pay for more office space and more seats in the Chamber as well as for things like security, lighting, heating and ICT infrastructure.
The Welsh Conservatives oppose the reforms saying any extra cash should be spent on more doctors, dentists, nurses and teachers.
Shadow Education Minister Tom Giffard said: “If Labour and Plaid think their £120m plans for more politicians in Cardiff Bay are so popular, they should prove it in a referendum.
“Speaking with so many people across Wales, it’s clear the money would be better spent on more doctors, teachers and dentists – not more politicians!
“The Welsh Conservatives have been the only party in Cardiff Bay to stand up against these plans, and if the Senedd petition reaches 10,000 signatures I look forward to re-stating our case once again.”
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Did they call for a referendum to decide on Wales losing 8 MP’s? No? Where were they then? There’s no constitutional change here. Same old anti-Wales tub thumpers thumping away.
And replacing 8 MP’s on a £100,000+ and expenses and office staff costs and replacing with 36 MS’s on £100,000+ and office costs/staff is fair then?
The full plan is for the Cymru Senedd to be more accountable when it takes on more powers from the UK that affect Cymru. For example: The accountability for the generated from tidal and wind power systems from our coastlines to which is at present taken by the centralised UK regime. The UK is a centralised monopolist regime with no local input from the nations nor the English regions: This must be change, the 2nd house must contain only elected representations from the nations and regions. Otherwise abolish the UK as it is not fit for purpose. A better idea… Read more »
Check your figures. Also Wales has fewer MS’s than NI has MLA’s. Is that “fair”? Just a bunch of anti Wales tubthumpers thumping away. Blame the Tories 14 years of austerity if you wonder why our services are cash strapped.
Pretty much all tories
Where are the Welsh petitioners for getting rid of the House of Lords? We need more scrutiny of the Senedd and the increase in numbers of members is vitally important.
How about a referendum on the exorbitant cost of an unelected house of Lords?
We are getting a referendum in 2026.
Don’t waste your vote on parties that will keep Cymru within the centralised UK structure with heavy top-down control.
Vote for an independent Cymru with full potential from its natural assets.
Centralisation has failed.
Cymru is a nation of potential; We must get it right.
‘We don’t feel that more money should be wasted on Members of the Senedd when we need improvements to NHS , Education and Social Care.’ I don’t accept that it is a ‘waste’. A functioning democracy comes at a cost, and it’s a simple fact that the Senedd currently has, proportionate to Wales’s population, a smaller number of elected members than is the case in respect of its counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland. One defect in the present situation which I haven’t seen mentioned is the relatively small number of Labour ‘back-benchers which are left once the first minister… Read more »
I agree. Increasing the number of MSs would assist the democratic functioning of the Sennedd – but the closed list system being introduced is indefensible and as far as I can see supported only by Labour’s party managers.
Again look at Scotland bigger population but with more members of Scotish Parliament to show for it Northern Ireland a Million and a half less population than Wales but with more members than Wales in their Parliament and now anti Welsh banging the table no more members of Welsh Parliament get lost better still get out of the DISUNITED KINGDOM they always put us down hold us back and rob us short change us
Clearly there won’t be a referendum because it’s obvious what the result would be. Winning a referendum on any proposal to create more politicians would be an uphill task even if the plans were well thought out; let alone the complete dog’s breakfast the current administration has come up with, which even many supporters of expansion are deeply dissatisfied with.
Let’s get the expansion and then demand reform so that the system becomes STV. That’s a similar logic that those of us who campaigned for devolution made, and is, I think, what was behind the very narrow victory of the Yes campaign. In 1997 we were offered nothing that was any different to that which was on offer in 1979, basically an all-Cymru talking shop, but the crucial difference was that it was sold as a starting point, as it’s architect, Ron Davies was at pains to point out, ‘Devolution is a process, not an event’. It’s very sad in… Read more »
So, according to the economic illiterate who wrote this petition the price of 36 MS’s is equivalent to the thousands of millions required to adequately fund local authorities, fix the NHS, fix schools, and fix social care… Basically it is the same old story, people on the right and people who dispute Wales’ right to exist, always seem to come up with the same irrational argument, it goes something like this… “why are you giving me this apple I didn’t want, for that price you could have given me a Ferrari”… Also, just for the record, there has never been… Read more »
I think the economic illiteracy is among the least of their issues. They seem to be somewhat intellectually challenged too.
You can call the electorate whatever you want but to get change you need the them on your side. Surely one of the first things is to get the majority of voters to feel that their vote matters and change is possible. Economic illiteracy can be improved by education assuming that someone is intellectually challenged because they don’t think as you do is not doing your cause any favours.
The map is revealing. Seems most support is from wealthy migrant retirees who swapped their semi in Surrey for a detached VoG mansion, and the economic migrant workers priced out of North West England.
Again the Welsh Tories with the aid of their English masters machine in London are trying to demote the Senedd by interfering with Welsh democracy using social media as a vehicle as done with the 20 mph default speed limit blanket ban falsehood to whip up hostility. Just look at recent remarks by Andrew RT Davies who suggested a referendum on abolishing the Senedd. This from a man who said to Remainers how we should respect the Brexit vote, the very same hypocrite & Tory party who have been fighting lost devolution battles since 1997. It’s do as we say… Read more »
If Nanette (who?) is so deeply concerned about public sector spending, perhaps she might question the need for 22 Local Authorities?
No, cheap anti-Welsh politics.
22 local authorities and most of them led by brown nosed Unionist sycophants, people who can always find funds for pet projects but confronting real challenges is beyond them.
How many do you propose? Local government is supposed to be local so if you merge too many you may as well run everything from Cardiff Bay.
8…
Actually the 1973-1997 setup wasn’t bad, 8 regions and around 120 local councils, now we have 22 and around 730 community councils (that no one knows for sure exactly how many just shows what a mess it is)…
Should also be elected on full open list PR…
Was expansion of the Senedd put into the Labour and Plaid Cymru manifestos in 2021? Don’t we get another vote in 2026, where we can vote them out if we don’t like them.
Scottish Parliament – 129 MSPs
Northern Ireland – 90 MLAs
Yet again why is Wales the outlier?
Don’t forget that the Senedd is only expanding because the 2011 referendum expanded its powers.
More powers means more politicians.
The Assembly had so few members by comparison to NI or Scotland, because it had far fewer powers.
Everyone is forgetting that these reforms are happening as a result of the 2011 referendum.
Voters approved the Assembly getting full law making powers, creating the Senedd with more powers and now we need to staff it appropriately.
Additionally, reforming the Senedd was a manifesto commitment at the last election.
In just the same way that Westminster cancelled a reduction in the number of MPs because of Brexit workload, Wales needs more politicians to cope with the workload of full law making powers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52036168
Won’t do any good, 1/2 Million voted against the blanket 20mph zones, and the WG could not care less.
Well vote them out next time
You do know the difference between voting and a petition don’t you?🙄
How many times did you sign?