Plaid defends walkout as criticism mounts over handing debate floor to Reform
Emily Price
Plaid Cymru has defended the actions of ministers who walked out during a debate yesterday as the party faces criticism for surrendering the floor to Reform UK.
Several Plaid Cymru ministers, along with Labour and Green Senedd Members, staged a walkout from the Chamber during a Reform-led debate on Wednesday (June 17).
The walkout was triggered by comments made by Reform’s Joe Martin.
He used his speaking time to joke about Welsh children being unable to read and claimed that nurses were signing up for universal credit because their jobs were being given to workers from India.
Plaid’s Caerdydd Fynnon Taf MS Zaynub Akbar could be heard off camera saying: “I’m going to leave this because I don’t accept any of this and I don’t want to be a part of it.”
Welsh Government ministers, including Trefnydd Heledd Fychan, could be seen walking out of the Chamber along with most of Labour’s MSs including Mike Hedges who branded Mr Martin’s remarks “very nasty and racist”.
Welsh Green Party leader Anthony Slaughter also left the Chamber during the debate, saying it was the “right thing to do” in response to “divisive rhetoric”.
“There’s a clear need to establish early on in this Senedd that this kind of language and behaviour isn’t acceptable,” he added.
‘Unchallenged’
However, ex-Labour MS Alun Davies criticised Plaid Cymru for giving the floor to Reform.
He said: “We’ve really got to do better than this. The whole point of defeating Reform at the polls was to elect people who would take them on and not run away.
“We simply cannot allow the chamber of our national parliament to be dominated by Reform because alternative voices have walked away from taking them on.
“We cannot allow this racism and prejudice to go unchallenged.
“I would expect elected members to be in their places and defeating Reform with the power of their arguments.”
‘Cowardly’
Welsh Conservative MS Andrew RT Davies also condemned the walkout branding ministers “childish” and “cowardly”.
He said: “The Senedd looked like a student union debating society yesterday. It was an incredibly bad look.”
Mr Davies’ colleague Janet Finch Saunders described the walkout as “unacceptable”.
She said: “Democracy requires debate, not disengagement. Our responsibility is to represent our constituents, listen to differing views, and ensure their voices are heard.”
A Plaid Cymru spokesperson said: “Plaid Cymru will not stand by as Reform UK make a mockery of our democracy and mock the communities we represent.
“Wales is a tolerant nation, grounded in compassion and respect – characteristics completely absent in the Reform UK ranks.”
The Reform motion that sparked the dispute did not pass. It called on the Welsh Government to end all international spending.
During his speech, Mr Martin branded Wales’ international projects “some of the most pointless schemes known to man”.
He claimed that the Welsh Government’s Ugandan tree-planting scheme had come about after Wales “won the competition for who can find the stupidest use of taxpayer money”.
Jokes
Mr Martin continued: “We actually asked some Ugandan people what they thought about Wales’s scheme to send them money for trees and they said, ‘Why are you sending us money for trees?’
“We then asked the same question to some Welsh students who had been through our underfunded education system, but we didn’t get a reply because we had e-mailed them and they couldn’t read.
“We spend £5 million on mini embassies across the globe. In India, one of the functions of those mini embassies is to recruit nurses to come and work in our NHS, which is great because it means that the Welsh people who would have otherwise become nurses can instead go on universal credit.
“I have enquired as to why we can’t just have an enormous pit where we burn all the money, but apparently that’s not compliant with net zero.”
He added: “Not everyone thinks these are stupid ideas, of course. I did actually receive an e-mail from a constituent the other day in favour of these schemes. I’m joking; I didn’t.”
Closing the debate, Reform’s Jason O’Connell said he was”deeply disappointed” that some Members had left the Chamber when the debate got “tough” adding that it was “absolutely shameful” for the people that voted for them.
Mr Martin was rebuked by the Senedd’s Llywydd the same morning for making derogatory remarks about Sudanese asylum seekers the day before.
Huw Irranca-Davies’ intervention came after Plaid ministers complained that Mr Martin had breached the Senedd’s standing orders.
Rules
In response, the Presiding Officer issued a warning to all Senedd Members that they should follow the Senedd’s rules on appropriate conduct.
At the end of the international spending debate, the Llywydd reissued the warning to Mr Martin.
He said: “I would like you to reflect, please, on the remarks and your contribution today.
“It was not in line with my expectations. Going forward, I think we all need to reflect on this and make sure that we comply with our conduct within this Chamber and the way we comport ourselves in light of my remarks.
“It’s particularly disappointing, as I made those remarks for a very good purpose earlier this afternoon.
“We can have robust disagreement, but with respect for each other and respect for others out there in wider society.”
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Disgraceful to walk out. Grow a pair and stand and fight back. It lets us all down and encourages the bullies. They are using words, so use words back. Democracy is a tough business and you need to fight for it – no matter your opponent. Bevan would not have run out crying when debating Tories because he didn’t like what they said. All those who walked should be suspended or sacked – get people in who have the stomach to fight for Wales. How on earth will we ever get the Barnet. HS2, Crown Estates money etc if we… Read more »
Couldn’t agree more. Reform should be allowed to speak as they want. However, Labour and Plaid should have stayed and called out the comments for what they were – racist – and not held back either. Reform are sometimes given way too much time to breath. Walking out says to me they can’t argue their point. As a keen historian, Churchhill, Disraeli, Gladstone, Lincoln, even Blair(!) and just about anyone else are remembered for staying and fighting the argument rather than walking out. Walkouts are remembered as pettiness, not victories in debate. I can’t think of a time a walkout… Read more »
If only that were true. Sadly you cannot debate far-right extremists when they openly use racist rhetoric and anti-Welsh slurs. Reform are treating the Senedd and Wales with utter contempt.
Reform could speak out. They were just talking to themselves. They don’t attend debates, do they? Farage and his cronies never went to the EU Parliament debates and he is hardly ever at Westminster debates.
I disagree, Plaid were not at fault; those racist, pro‑Russia collaborators from Reform were with their racist slurs. However, I do agree with you in one sense: to fight a bully, you must stand up to them – but we must not become what we hate. Sunlight is said to be the best disinfectant, to quote U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis.
They ran away. No more, no less. There was a chance to fight back with coruscating, inspirational rhetoric and they went to the pub instead. Shameful. We are done for. Nothing in Wales will change and Reform will be further emboldened.
Sorry, you are wrong. All you do is lower yourself to their base level. Reform are effectively football hooligans who brush their greasy hair and put on a tie to go to court, giving the impression they are respectable, when you would sooner bathe them in spit than give them the oxygen of publicity. Those who voted for these cretins will regret it, if not already.
maybe you should listen to Heledd’s opinion and consider addressing her concerns. ‘Debate’ if you will!
Very presumptuous. How would you have proceeded in that toxic environment, pray tell? Reform does not debate; it desecrates. And you should not defend the indefensible.
You stand and fight. You don’t run off crying. As others have said, all those who deserted their posts should be sacked. Not one is serving the people of Wales, not one has the stomach or skills to fight Reform and, mark my words, not one will achieve a single thing in their political careers. The bullies have won and are laughing. No wonder only 50% of people bother to vote. It also happened over the Women’s Rights debate. It will happen again. Walkout as you can’t be bothered to fight.
Simply put, such racist and offensive language is unacceptable. In a government building, if this person repeats this language, he should be suspended until he apologises.
So what exactly did he say that was racist ?
There is no point talking to most Reformers. A better name to tell the truth would be the Bigot Party, or the Xenophobia Party. And how often does Farage turn up in parliament to listen to other people? How often did he turn up at EU debates?
I didn’t get any racism from this report. The Welsh NHS does employ nurses recruited from abroad when it should be training UK citizens. This is wrong on many levels but not racist. If Plaid are going to hide behind name calling they don’t deserve to be in the Senedd
Unless they have been conceived, born, raised and educated elsewhere then workers are expensive and on the whole the wealthier elements of the UK public or those who trade in the UK – people like Tice and Farage or Musk – don’t want to cough up for maternity grants, housing, maternity hospitals, maternity allowances, time off for childcare, childcare, child benefit, youth provision. They don’t want to pay for couples to have indigenous 18-year olds who have had a good childhood and are fit and willing to be trained as good British workers.
Agree but we are we are now so difficult to blame reform for policies set by previous governments. Mind the reform leaders do not inspire
Reform UK are making a mockery of Welsh democracy by using racist rhetoric in the Senedd chamber. In my opinion, Plaid Cymru and others who walked out in protest have been unjustly criticised. Would you accept these arrogant far-right scumbags smirking in your face while using disgusting Islamophobic and anti-Welsh slurs. No. There’s only so much you can tolerate before it turns ugly.
Very true.
I would do as they did. I wouldn ot be seen in a place where racism is allowed.
You’re too used to Labour being having no real opposition in the Senedd. Plaid were generally too timid and often fell into line. Now Labour have imploded and given rise to a minority Plaid government. We now have an opposition party who are prepared to rigorously challenge for the first time but it appears Plaid can’t stay in the room and defend their policies. You are obviously not a Reform supporter, neither am I particularly, but very many people in Wales voted for them and they should rightly expect that the party they voted for reflect their views in the… Read more »
Deform clown needs to be shown up for the joker he is. Let him keep talking and eventually he won’t be able to speak up much with those big red floppy shoes filling up his mouth.
It’s the Speaker’s job to enforce standards. He’d already slapped Martin’s wrist for a racist remark – he should have taken control and sent him out to cool his rhetoric.
Not a good sign if the Speaker’s losing control this early in the session.
Absolutely. I think Plaid made a mistake with the walk out but they’ll learn. Next time they’ll be ready and can press the PO – speaker to use his power to control the debate. Reform are going to be offensive – that’s part of their MO. It insults and creates publicity.
Yes, correct. The speaker failed in his duty seeing Martin had previous form. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Plaid are not a fault here, Reform are. It a valuable lesson learned.
‘Huw Day Out’, way out of his comfort zone, but we knew that, so why give him the job!…
The previous FM did go to India to recruit nurses…
Why (apart from a free VIP holiday) because of Brexit, you could not make this up, it is a sickness of the national morality…that virtue is now a jailing offence…
What money can buy you, the UK justice system @ Lemmy not Lammy…
Bit strong of the ‘Welsh’ Conservatives to accuse Plaid of cowardice when they couldn’t bring themselves to front up a robust defence of established Senedd debate rules.
Has ‘free speech’ been so cheapened and trivialised that inciting racist tensions is now considered bravery?
It’s a tricky one as you’re dealing with something more akin to a circus act than a parliamentary group. His comments in the second debate were more bizarre and ridiculous than anything. But then you have to deal with them more robustly and head on otherwise it’ll inevitably continue.
Very true. Reform is not a serious political party, immature in fact , therefore it prefers disruptive over constructive participation during Senedd debates.
Hard to debate racist idiots, reform did this on purpose, they knew the import of the words they use and they use them with glee. I don’t blame Plaid, I blame the Welsh racists/useful idiots that put reform in the Senedd.
It’s always hard to debate when you leave the room. It would be more mature and helpful not to call those you’re debating with “idiots” even if they have stooped to that level themselves
How do you debate with them. They have orders. They are here to wreck and you will not get through this stupid.
Had they not walked out, we may not have picked up on the vile comments.
I have read them, they are recorded.
Advantage Reform it is then. They’ll continue with these tactics knowing that Plaid etc will flounce out or lose their cool. Starmer and the UK government will also have taken note for any upcoming funding negotiations – Rhun is weak and his team are weaker. Politics is a rough game so I hope Rhun learns from this – he has to.
You’ve just described Welsh Labour, not Plaid Cymru. If you want the Senedd to descend into a circus where politicians end up physically fighting on the chamber floor, that would be a sad day for Welsh democracy. I still can’t fathom why Plaid, rather than Reform, are being attacked for standing up against those making racial slurs. These are worrying symptoms of a fast-encroaching Reform-led idiocracy.
Do you really think Starmer will be around for much longer after the result of the Makerfield by-election!
Could someone tell me then why are they reducing the intake of nursing students at the University of Cardiff and with plans to close the department still under consideration and we are recruiting nurses from India?
It is cheaper to poach ready-made workers from overseas than to have them born, raised for 18 years, housed for 18 years and educated for 16 years in this country. Universities are short of funds. Schools are short of funds. Housing is insecure. Benefits are inadequate. Ready-raised and if possible ready-trained nurses from other countries are cheaper and allow nurses’ incomes to be kept down. Pay people to do nursing degrees, subsidise universities more to run nursing degree courses, promise people better nursing salaries at the end of that and you’d get more indigenous nurses. But it will cost.
I know, thanks but it is a short sighted policy. It also strikes me that Wales pays the nurses’ wages but unemployment pay comes from central government.
I sympathise with those who responded as they did – leaving the siambr – as its not easy not to react when a bigoted buffoon is spouting undiluted racism in your presence. But this sadly is the shape of things to come from Reform – indeed they revel in incendiary language like this – so we (plaid) need to develop a strategy when it comes to dealing with Reform’s ‘dog whistling’ and worse in the Senedd. Because if we walk out every time some toerag from Reform uses odious culture war language our senedd members will be spending more time… Read more »
Who can blame them for walking out. No one with a little intelligence is expected sit there and listen to the garbage that Reform are peddling. Absolute amateurs and out of their depth.
It’s their job to deal with these confrontations. Start dishing out some salty responses, treat the Reform statements as open targets ripe for counterattack. Grow a pair, Rhun, that’s what your nation expects at this time.
You don’t fight fascism by running away. You stand your ground, fight back and destroy the scum. That’s what we need to do to rid Wales of these English nationalist freaks.
The main attitude today is surender, this is what we are taught, and do away with freedom of speech, and if someone tells us something we don’t like then walk out.
Truth always hurts.