Plaid leader refuses to say if Union Jack would fly under his leadership

Emily Price 

Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iorwerth has dodged questions on whether he would fly the Union Jack flag above Welsh Government buildings if he becomes first minister.

Iorwerth’s remarks came during an interview with ITV’s Rob Osborne as part of a televised Welsh leaders series ahead of the May 7 vote.

The final episode in the series featured the musician-turned-journalist-turned-politician at home, drinking tea and playing guitar, as he discussed what is expected to be the most significant election since the start of devolution in 1999.

Asked about how people in Wales view their British identity, the Plaid leader was pressed on whether he would allow the Union Jack to be flown over Welsh Government headquarters if he became first minister.

Iorwerth did not answer the question directly, but said: “I’m pro-Welsh independence, so Wales is my nation.

“But I’ve talked about having a new kind of relationship between nations in these islands – a redesign of Britain.

“It’s not an anti-Britain thing, it’s a pro-Wales thing.”

Quizzed again on whether the Union Jack would be flying if he was the first minister of Wales, Iorwerth said: “Well the dragon of Wales is my flag.”

Pressed by Osborne a third time on whether he was indicating he wouldn’t fly the Union Jack over government headquarters in Wales, Iorwerth said: “My country is Wales, I identify as being Welsh.”

Asked what his relationship with the King would be like if he became first minister, Iorwerth said he had always maintained good relations with the royal family, but added that he did not believe the monarchy should form part of Wales’ political system.

Poll

A new ITV poll released on Tuesday (May 5) revealed that Plaid Cymru is on course to be the largest party in the Senedd with 33% of the vote share – four percentage points ahead of Reform UK at 29%.

Asked whether Iorwerth was taking for granted that he will be Wales’ first minister after the vote on May 7, he replied, “Absolutely not.”

“There are two parties likely to be leading the formation of government next time – It’s Plaid or Reform,” Iorwerth added.

ITV’s Osborne pointed out that Welsh Labour and the Greens were unlikely to back a government led by Nigel Farage’s party.

Plaid’s leader replied: “If we have the honour of forming a government – it’s leadership bringing others with us and looking for common ground and that invitation is to other politicians in the Senedd as well.

“If we want to get things through and we haven’t got a majority – we are going to have to work with you – that’s how mature politics works.”

Independence

Among Plaid’s manifesto pledges, the party has promised a White Paper on independence – rowing back on a previous commitment in 2021 to hold a referendum within the first term of a Plaid-led government.

Asked whether his U-turn reflected concerns that the promise of  independence could be a vote-loser, Iorwerth said now was not the right time for a referendum because current polling suggested Plaid would be unlikely to win.

He said that while he hoped Wales could be ready for a referendum during a second term in government, it would not be something he would impose on Welsh people.

He said: “I want to guide people to be confident and think about how the relationship between nations in these islands could work better for all of us, not just for Wales.”

Pressed on whether he would seek to build support for independence by capitalising on public frustration if Westminster refused to work with a Plaid-led government, Iorwerth said he hoped to maintain a “constructive relationship” with whoever becomes the next Prime Minister.

He said: “It will be a relationship where he is very clear throughout. It is to the people of Wales and in getting the gains I think we need – on investment, on infrastructure, on HS2, on the Crown Estate, on the devolution of policing.”

Challenge

Plaid Cymru has portrayed itself as a party of change during the Senedd election campaign, despite cooperating with Welsh Labour on several policies over the years, including the tourism tax and the expansion of the Senedd.

When asked if Plaid was offering voters little more than a change of face at the top of government, Iorwerth rejected the characterisation.

He said: “There’s a significant difference in having a party that is based solely in Wales, responsible only for the wellbeing of the people of Wales, making a case and putting forward a vision, compared with a party that ultimately is a branch of a UK-wide party – and I think that’s what excites people.”

On the Welsh Government’s most significant challenge, the Welsh NHS, Iorwerth claimed his party could get rid of the longest waiting times “within a matter of months”.

“We expect within this Senedd term to cut maybe 300,000 people off waiting times altogether,” he said.

Welsh language

Plaid has proposed to recruit 100 new GPs to address the health crisis in Wales and reduce pressure on primary care. Iorwerth said his party had found the cash to recruit these new GPs within Wales’ health budget.

Turning to education, Iorwerth said his party would deliver literacy and numeracy reform, free school meal expansion and a review of the curriculum for Wales.

On his pledge for half of pupils to be educated in Welsh-medium schools by 2050, Plaid’s leader said too many children were leaving school without the ability to speak Welsh.

Asked whether every new school in Wales would be a Welsh language one, Iorwerth replied, “Not all, but some will.”

“We have to be setting these kinds of targets. I think we need to be brave. We need to be confident in our ability to be this bilingual nation – not one language taking over from another,” he added.

Plaid’s manifesto pledges include a universal childcare offer of 20 hours of free provision each week, alongside plans to raise school standards and create a new National Development Agency for Wales to boost the economy and support small and medium-sized enterprises.

But questions have been raised about whether Plaid will be able to afford these commitments.

Iorwerth said that during his time canvassing he had warned Welsh voters that if a politician offers the world, “don’t believe them”.

When asked if Iorwerth was guilty of doing this himself, he argued that his party’s plans were a focused program of government that recognised that things were tight.

Cuts

The Institute for Fiscal Studies has warned that delivering Plaid’s plans would, “deepen the cuts faced by unprotected services and/or require increases in devolved taxes”.

Asked whether people’s taxes would increase under a Plaid government, Iorwerth answered “no”.

He indicated he wanted to see more tax powers devolved to Wales and hinted that Plaid would look at re-banding Welsh homes to make the council tax system fairer.

Asked what he would do if Westminster rejected these proposals, Iorwerth said he would not simply accept that outcome, but added it did not mean he expected approval “immediately” whenever he asked for it.

At the end of the interview, Iorwerth was pressed on a series of existing Welsh policies and asked whether he would keep or scrap them.

On the controversial 20mph default speed limit, Iorwerth said he would keep the restriction – but said it had been implemented poorly by the current Labour government.

On 50mph average zones, Plaid’s leader said he would retain the ones that were working.

Public purse

Asked about the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the role of the Future Generations Commissioner, Iorwerth said the legislation should be strengthened so it “does more”, arguing it has so far failed to challenge the government effectively.

On minimum unit pricing for alcohol, Iowerth said he would keep the “important health measure”.

When pressed on whether he would keep taxpayer subsidies for Cardiff Airport at the current rate, Plaid’s leader said “too much money had gone into the airport”, adding that it needed to be “less onerous for the public purse”.

On the new closed proportional list system for electing Members of the Senedd, which gives voters just one choice between a party or an independent candidate, Iorwerth said Plaid would scrap the changes, describing the reform as a “compromise” with Welsh ministers.

He said: “We support a different model that we think would be better – but we made sure that we were able to build into the legislation the ability to have a review – which will happen after the election.”

The full series of Wales Decides 2026 – The Interviews is now available to watch on ITV X.