Proof that Vaughan Gething lied to the Senedd
Martin Shipton
A ministerial iMessage chat that took place during the Covid crisis on August 17 2020 proves that Vaughan Gething told lies to the Senedd.
In May, after NationCymru published a message written by Mr Gething in which he admitted deleting material because it would otherwise be disclosable under freedom of information legislation, he told Senedd Tory leader Andrew RT Davies during First Minister’s Questions that the chat related to internal Labour group business and had nothing to do with decision-making during the Covid crisis.
We are now in a position to publish further details of an iMessage chat dated August 17 2020 involving Welsh Government ministers from which the incriminating message written by Mr Gething was taken.
Incriminating
It proves conclusively that the chat did relate to government business and decisions – and that Mr Gething was being untruthful when he answered Mr Davies’ question in the Senedd.
The iMessage chat included the following messages:
Julie James: Just to let everyone know that we expect England are now announcing going to CAG [Centre Assessed Grades for students who couldn’t take exams because of Covid] at 4pm.
Jane Hutt: Thanks for A levels and GCSE?
Jeremy Miles: Boris is hinting that they will drop the algorithm for A levels, reported in the Guardian just now. Faced with a hint hint strategy, surely that strengthens the case for not waiting?
Julie James: Under discussion right now I’ve been told.
Unidentified Minister: I am afraid I disagree if we think our system is legitimate we should not move until we are forced to and this could keep the chair of quals Wales [Qualifications Wales] on board.
Jeremy Miles: WLGA [Welsh Local Government Association] have just called for CAG for A and GCSE and a review of QW [Qualifications Wales].
Julie James: Announcement from us now at 2pm.
Jeremy Miles: Good. A and GCSE?
Julie James: Yes.
Jeremy Miles: CAG for both? Would it be possible to share the statement on here or the Ministerial WhatsApp group please?
Julie James: On its way to inboxes now. Announcement just gone out.
Jeremy Miles: I think some rallying around Kirsty [Williams, the Education Minister] is in order!
Lesley Griffiths: Yes I agree.
Julie James: Yes indeed.
Ken Skates: Absolutely. I’ve also spoken with [redacted] today.
Julie James: WLGA leadership on side too.
Lesley Griffiths: Is the 4pm meeting on teams?
Jeremy Miles: Yes.
Julie James: Yes. Started with Mike holding forth.
Jeremy Miles: That’s good news Julie. Best to be on the front foot.
Rebecca Evans: Wish they would hurry up – am speaking to Heads in my area in 10 mins.
Julie James: I don’t think it’ll be before then sorry! I’m doing a series of media today re local government & it’s all just grades.
Rebecca Evans: You have probably seen it already, but the Cabinet members of Anglesey, Gwynedd, Conwy, Denbighshire, Flintshire and Wrexham have all signed a letter saying they have no confidence in the system.
Jeremy Miles: I was only gobsmacked it didn’t include NPT [Neath Port Talbot].
Julie James: Hmmm. I’m speaking to Wrexham at 1.
Hannah Blythyn: I agree with Jeremy re being on the front foot.
Lesley Griffiths: As I do.
Rebecca Evans: Me too. If we are going to do it, let’s not be last.
Jane Hutt: We need to think of / consult Kirsty.
Jeremy Miles: Agreed Jane. That’s absolutely the key thing.
Lesley Griffiths: Yes needs [sic] to know Kirsty’s view.
Julie James: Yes. Started with Mike holding forth.
Lesley Griffiths: Got in now. Ah yes.
Jeremy Miles: Now we have an algorithm going spare, any chance it can be used to select the next MS for Swansea East?
Jane Hutt: Great ministerial contributions.
Vaughan Gething: I’m deleting the messages in this group. They can be captured in an FOI and so think we are all in the right place on the choice being made.
Julie James: Good point Vaughan.
FOI
On May 7, after NationCymru had published a message in which Mr Gething said he was deleting messages because they could be captured by FoI, he was questioned by Andrew RT Davies.
In the course of his response, Mr Gething said: “In my witness statement to the public inquiry—I think it’s paragraph 24 onwards—I set out in some detail, honestly and fully, how messages have been retained and stored to ensure that a proper record of all choices made by me and other Ministers have been captured and provided to the inquiry.
“The screenshot that you refer to is actually from a conversation between Ministers that relates to a Labour group meeting in August 2020. It does not relate to decisions captured. It’s actually about the way in which we describe what we are doing. But, as I say, I’ve set out in detail in my witness statement to the inquiry, in paragraph 24 onwards, how those messages have been stored and the efforts that I have undertaken to ensure that a full list of all the messages that are available are provided to the inquiry … I’m very clear that I sent the message that you refer to. I’m also very clear that the context of the conversation is entirely about a Labour Party group meeting and it is not about decision making to do with the pandemic.
“It’s about comments that colleagues make to and about each other. It’s about ensuring that we don’t provide things that are potentially embarrassing, but not those things that affect any information about decision making during the pandemic.”
Mr Gething has also claimed that the messages related to banter involving a Member of the Senedd later identified as Mike Hedges. Mr Hedges had been critical of the earlier decision to assess students for exam grades on the basis of an algorithm. The fuller version of the conversation we now have makes it clear it was government decisions relating to exams during the Covid crisis that were being discussed – and that they should have been disclosed to the UK Covid Inquiry.
Serious questions
Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iorwerth said: “Whilst these latest revelations undoubtedly raise yet more serious questions about the accounts given by the First Minister, I am increasingly concerned that the never-ending sagas around the Labour Welsh government are detracting attention away from the day job.
“The people of Wales are fed up with seeing a shambolic government constantly having to bat away negative headlines rather than focusing on bringing down waiting lists and persuading the UK Labour government that Wales deserves a fair deal.
“Ministers were clearly discussing the work of government and it is beyond belief that Vaughan Gething failed to provide these messages to the UK Covid inquiry.
“It should have been the inquiry itself deciding on the relevance of these messages, rather than a First Minister hiding them.
“What must Covid bereaved families be thinking today of all days as Dame Hallett sets out the first official report by the UK Covid Inquiry?
“Only Labour Senedd Members know why the First Minister has been allowed to carry on until the autumn when it is clear to everyone else that it would have been in Wales’ interests for him to stand down with immediate effect. This sorry saga must end.”
‘Crystal clear’
A Welsh Labour insider said: “It’s now crystal clear that this was not an internal Labour issue where Vaughan was trying to protect his colleague Mike Hedges. He was instead talking about deleting the discussion regarding exams. This would make sense as only policy issues are subject to FoI..
“We need a leader that doesn’t just say what suits him in the moment but tells the truth. Nobody should seek to justify or defend misleading the chamber. Leadership is about being willing to admit when you have done something wrong, Sadly this seems impossible for Vaughan and the people around him.”
A spokesman for the Welsh Government said: “The messages in no way contradict the First Minister’s statements to the Chamber. The group was never used to make policy decisions.
“The messages referred to have been passed to the Covid Inquiry.”
In May, NationCymru was told in response to an FoI request that the Welsh Government did not have any record of the relevant ministerial chat. We asked how it was later provided to the UK Covid Inquiry but did not get a response.
A spokesperson for the Covid Bereaved Families for Justice Cymru campaign group said: “We’ve had a day of hearing how the Welsh Government failed dismally to prepare for a pandemic. We’re furious to now see these messages. Vaughan Gething and co have misled the Inquiry and the Senedd.”
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If this chat wasn’t submitted to the inquiry then presumably every member who was a minister at the time is now barred from running for First Minister.
This evidence proves Vaughan Gething lied. It should now be a police matter and he be recalled by his constituents and removed as a MS from our Senedd Cymru. And it now shows he was never fit to hold high office, used racism to deflect prying eyes from this smoking gun evidence, which only adds to his misdemeanors as Health Secretary & First Minister. Importantly those who supported Vaughan Gething’s candidature as First Minister that were involved in suppressing this information when he was Health Secretary, during his campaign to become First Minister and after to protect Labour leader Keir… Read more »
if only there was a way of recalling a rouge MS, like we have with MPs?
Labour set up the system that they are accountable to no one, for us we are now beginning to see it.How many more before this incident. Have happened and been hidden
Where was the lie? The leaked screenshot did not contain any government discussions. VG also did not participate in that newly published conversation. The statement was inaccurate in the light of new evidence and he could correct the record, but to be a lie he must have remembered a chat he didn’t participate in from four years ago *or* been shown the full chat before making the statement. It’s not a lie if he only saw other versions of the published screenshot to determine which phone it was leaked from.
Vaughan Gething: I’m deleting the messages in this group. They can be captured in an FOI and so think we are all in the right place on the choice being made.
This looks like some participation! clearly one designed to delete future criticism. And shows that the mindset was one of deleting issues which should have been kept as a public record.
Get a refund of his salary since he has been in the Sennedd
After reading all of that please could someone explain to me what integrity means. Because I thought it meant having the qualities of being honest and having strong moral principles that you refuse to change. Yet the Honourable Mr Gething stated that ‘his integrity remained uncompromised’. So I must be wrong.
If I speak slowly and deliberately it shows that I am right and you are wrong and therefore I am the one with integrity.
The condescending way in which he speaks drives me insane…as though we plebs are a bunch of idiots missing the point.
Some said this about Mr Drakeford but it wasn’t used as a reason to lynch him.
But who is the Idiot
I got a flag, is that good?
If this is how Labour band together to protect colleagues while conducting the business of a country they should all resign from office now. Putting any politician on a pedestal is ridiculous it shows the lack of care towards voters and the day to day business they are were elected to perform, they all stood by and said nothing for months mouths shut, silent! while the leader of their party dug a hole so deep that he was unable to climb out of it, was it not for four of his former colleagues finally making a stand against him he… Read more »
Quite right. Those on the chat who went along with it are also culpable. The aversion to scrutiny is alarming.
Good point…that just leaves Mabon, I think everybody trusts Mabon because his ancestor is watching…! and God of course…!
All a question of scale, in London successive Tory health ministers and their administrations conspired in the deaths of hundreds of thousands…
Here in Cymru it would be useful to know where we come on that scale…
One thing about newsprint is, it soon turns into chip paper unlike its digital self…
The real villains are about to head off on their summer holidays…curse tablet anyone?
Are u saying its ok to cause thousands of deaths in Wales if England killed far more. Not sure I get that logic
VG has quit. What more do you expect?
The rest of his cabinet to do the same and they ALL tell the truth
Because they forgot about the existence of one phone conversation?
Any new and future First Minister, whether tomorrow morning, later this year, or 2026, will be in no doubt that scrutiny of government business will not be confined to Senedd committees.
Vaughan Gething lied, well I never!
Rumour has it he will return to Penarth to become a used car salesman, with his shiny blue suit he will do you a good deal on a used motor!
He is currently contemplating whether to stock his showroom with 2 or 3 luxury cars or a plethora of old bangers with the £200k
Vaughan Gething: I’m deleting the messages in this group. They can be captured in an FOI and so think we are all in the right place on the choice being made.
Julie James: Good point Vaughan. (she forgot to add, I am just as guilty as you Vaughan if this ever comes out)
Yet no evidence of messages actually deleted. But let’s say he did remove some messages that were unrelated to government business, where the chat veered into party business, social events or even an inappropriate joke. These don’t need to be supplied in response to an FOI or the Covid inquiry. Only removing messages related to government business would be a problem.
Gething has no shame that’s obvious in his obnoxious arrogant behaviour. The rest of his cabinet can now stand tall and look us in the eye AND RESIGN, as they are as bigger participants as Gething is
The cabinet should all quit because of one deleted iPhone message? If that’s the case what should the hierarchy of Plaid do after their own report exposing serial harassment, bullying and misogyny?
Plaid not the issue here and will never be the issue unless the pigs fly and they become the majority party at Y Senedd. Then they had better be on their best behaviour, squeaky clean and not just adept at covering their tracks.
That which you refer to is not a good look but really is a side show because they are nowhere near power or authority. Gething may have done them all a favour because in his own perverse way he has reintroduced the matters of standards and integrity to centre stage where they belong.
All politicians should be held to account. Your bias is showing here
That’s a ridiculous comment. Gething is the first minister and lied to the Senedd and to the Covid inquiry. That’s the issue. Stop trying to deflect the blame for his dishonesty.
It’s only a lie if it was intentional. Where’s your evidence that he wilfully misled the Senedd?
So they were all in on it.
I would be surprised if there is any politician of any party who was involved in decision making during the pandemic that has not deleted something. It may be wrong, but it is not surprising that people would worry about how informal, sometimes explorative, discussions would appear in the harsh light of hindsight. But for some reason Gething is receiving much greater scrutiny than others.
Firstly natural justice would say that as Rishi Sunak “deleted” all his Covid era messages and Johnson “lost” the phone” with all his COVID era messages then whatever punishment is given to Gething it will have to be much much worse for those two. Remember ignorance of the law is no excuse. Secondly, it was clearly from Hannah Blythyn’s phone from which the screengrab came. Gething was right about that.
And Sturgeon of course.
Clearly our media can teach the English media a lesson or two about principles and holding political leaders to account.
The whole lot of them have been shown to be sly but I thought that the issue with these messages was not that they had been deleted but that when asked if he’d deleted them he said no and later he said that the messages were ‘nothing to do with decision making during the Covid crisis’
Gething had plenty of opportunity to say.
Oops, Sorry, I forgot about those;
Which would reasonably have given him the -crazy time of Covid explanation .
It’s a failing of his that he assumed there wasn’t a trace left to discover and so denial was the best option.
Bloody “Crime” Scene Investigators as some are saying.
Where Gething was born has no influence on his behaviour, and there are plenty of self-centered Welsh people. Your assertion is just silly.
It betrays the existence of something much worse than silliness.
Surprised the police aren’t involved
Lying Bar Steward
Liar liar pants on fire.
Get him out of being paid from the public purse
Ride a gift horse to death?