Reform MS accused of making ‘vile’ and ‘disturbing’ remarks about asylum seekers during FMQs
Emily Price
A Reform MS has been sharply criticised for making “vile” remarks about asylum seekers in the Senedd, with one MS of Pakistani heritage becoming visibly emotional following the “disturbing” contribution.
Joe Martin told the Chamber that supporters of the nation of sanctuary scheme oppose its abolition because no Ukrainian refugees have “beheaded people in the streets” yet.
“The same cannot be said for Sudanese asylum seekers,” he added.
The Caerdydd Penarth MS was jeered at and asked, “are you a racist?” by another Member following his contribution during questions to the First Minister on Tuesday (June 16).
He had asked Rhun ap Iorwerth what assessment the government had made of the potential risks to public safety of the nation of sanctuary programme.
Mr Martin then went on to compare Ukrainian refugees with Sudanese asylum seekers, claiming that two Welsh Government ministers had welcomed Sudanese men to the UK that were later convicted of raping women.
Mr Martin said: “Whilst I don’t know why it’s necessary to spend additional money over and above what Westminster already spends to help Ukrainian families, you won’t find anyone seriously contending that they’re the reason the scheme should be scrapped.
“But that’s because, so far, there have been zero instances of Ukrainian refugees trying to behead people in the streets.
“The same cannot be said for Sudanese asylum seekers.
“Simply ask Stephen Ogilvie from Belfast, or the family of Rhiannon Whyte who was murdered, or any of the 226 women who were raped by Sudanese men in 2024 alone.
“These being the same men your ministers Mabon ap Gwynfor and Sioned Williams said Wales must welcome.
“So, First Minister, what will you do to make sure that when the next inevitable attack happens, it doesn’t take place in Wales?”
‘Wedges’
Mr ap Iowerth warned that Members would have to “get used” to Reform trying to “drive wedges between communities”.
He said: “Yes, the nation of sanctuary policy did house mostly Ukrainian refugees.
“I understand the difficulty that the Member has in addressing that issue given the fact that the former leader of Reform in Wales is currently serving a lengthy jail term for taking money from the Russians, and one of the first calls made by their finance spokesperson was to tear down the Ukraine flag flying outside our Senedd.
“Let’s focus here on what unites us. Let’s focus on the leadership that’s incumbent on all of us to show in order to create cohesion between communities.”
Later in the session, Plaid Cymru’s Lindsay Whittle told the Chamber that two Ukrainian schoolgirls in his constituency had been physically and verbally abused in his Caerphilly constituency.
“I have to say that’s not the town I know and love,” he said.
“We recognise the reality that refugees are bringing to our towns and contributing to society, and there are good and bad in all societies.”
Labour’s Shav Taj became emotional whilst telling the Chamber she was “proud” to be the child of immigrants.
Welsh trade unionist is the daughter of a Pakistani immigrant who moved to the UK in the 1950s to work in the south Wales steel industry.
She branded Mr Martin’s comments “vile” and “disturbing” and raised concerns about the children watching Senedd proceedings in the gallery above.
‘Proud’
Ms Taj said: “I’m really proud of the fact that my late father chose Wales over and above England, where he first arrived.
“He came here, he looked around him and actually the community of Bridgend and Port Talbot made him feel welcome.”
She added: “To conflate the issue of immigration with the nation of sanctuary and then, of course, some of the vile stuff that we’ve just been hearing, is actually really shocking, I think it is disturbing.
“It’s disturbing for the children who visit the Senedd, who will be sitting up in the gallery watching our debate here.
“And the fact that we can actually be having this type of interchange in a place like this I think is pretty damning and telling of some of the voices, unfortunately, that are here.”
Responding, the First Minister said his government would not be, “cowed by those who are intolerant and want to seek division”.
Green Party MS Anthony Slaughter warned that public safety was being threatened by the, “constant peddling of misinformation for cheap political gain”.
Housing
Mr Martin’s comments about asylum seekers came after Reform’s leader, Dan Thomas, was heckled by Members when he claimed that “uncontrolled immigration” had contributed to Wales’ housing shortage.
The First Minister branded the leader of the opposition’s remarks an “attempt to create division”.
Mr Thomas claimed his party was not “blaming immigrants” but blaming “uncontrolled and unplanned immigration which has a ripple effect across the UK”.
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If skin colour is a key indicator of how civilised a person is, what does the conviction of Josef Fritzl say about white men? If that sounds like a totally nonsensical argument that’s because it is – but I’m simply reflecting the absurdity of this reprobate’s race baiting antics, which shame us all as a nation.
On the anniversary of the murder of Jo Cox by a member of the far right, Martin would do well to consider his comments and the riots in Southampton that followed Farage’s call for “pure cold rage”. Careless talk costs lives.
The reform party showing it’s true nature- a nasty bunch of bigots , sowing diversion and hatred constantly- shocking that their Deputy Leader prior to being elected was employed as a Teacher in an Anglesey secondary school- perhaps Estyn should examine that school for white bias !
You have to admire the recruitment methods of Reform.
They have been eminently effective in bringing what can only be described as the scrapings of the very bottom of society’s barrel into their ranks.
In the Welsh Christian tradition, the values these people propagate would have been considered the mutterings of the devil.
These people are truly evil.
What can we do, indeed what is it our duty to do, to mute this serpent?
This must be a priority for our society, if we are to even consider ourselves civilised.
The characters some of these Reform members are employing as advisers and researchers with our money should be investigated.
Just watched his “performance” on Senedd.tv. As for those Reform Senedd Members nodding along in encouragement, you’re an absolute disgrace.
Much like those that put them in the Senedd .
God help us all if Reform ever gain power.
Reform really don’t have anything else, do they? Embarrassing.
“Mr Martin said: “Whilst I don’t know why it’s necessary to spend additional money over and above what Westminster already spends to help Ukrainian families, …” Its because the UK government requires devolved Governments in addition to English councils to provide services to refugee communities. Here is a link to reform controlled Kent Councils website detailing how they are going to provide the legally mandated support. Yes Wales gave out policy a fancy title but that doesn’t change why we have it. Ironically, the easiest way to prevent Westminster placing refugees and asylum seekers in Wales is to support Welsh Independence.… Read more »
Only interested in protecting women and children when there’s an axe to grind.
Many of the men who were convicted of rioting in the Southport riots were already known to the police for e.g. domestic violence, according to Reform they were just “fed up”.
Disgusting racist scum!
Interesting that Joe Martin and Cai dy geg were both at Exeter University together. You can picture it now : two unpopular friendless nerds festering their resentment into shaping their fascist philosophies.
The Fat Shanks Effect, one of Trump and Putin’s best stunts…
Is this who we are as exampled by our chosen champions…
For every penny spent to provide such pornography is beyond comprehension…
Drakeford and his disciples should be banished to Caldey Island
I’m assuming that as racism is illegal, and bringing the senedd into disrepute is a disciplinary offence, that appropriate action will be taken against him?
Exactly how many written complaints does the senedd require to take disciplinary action? Asking for a freind….
If the behaviour of a minority is to be used to demonise an entire group perhaps Reform will campaign to abolish men who are responsible for 84% of all crimes.
Ban him for a month.
He needs to apologise for the remarks made.