Rhun ap Iorwerth backs scrapping Welsh Secretary post
Martin Shipton
First Minister Rhun ap Iorwerth has implied strongly that the role of Secretary of State for Wales should be scrapped.
Asked by journalist Matt Chorley whether the post was still necessary, Mr ap Iorwerth said: “I would argue that it probably isn’t. There is a role for it as a conduit on some matters but I’ll make it as clear as I can that I want my ministers to be dealing with ministers in relevant departments in the UK government rather than going through a secretary state for Wales.
“Now if you have a Secretary of State for Wales, and I hope Stephen Kinnock will consider this to be his role, and can facilitate those discussions and not be a barrier in any way, we’ll good we’ll use it in that way but it’s becoming increasingly clear that it’s a role that’s rather different to what is was pre-devolution.”
In expressing doubts about the need for a Welsh Secretary, the First Minister is echoing the views of quite a few politicians before him.
In the immediate aftermath of the narrow referendum Yes vote in 1999 to set up what is now the Senedd, there was a serious suggestion that the Secretaries of State for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland should be scrapped and replaced by a single Cabinet post representing all three devolved nations.
But the idea was rejected, and successive governments have continued to appoint separate Secretaries of State for all three countries.
Criticism has not abated, however, especially since Brexit, with the UK Government being accused of seeking to roll back devolution by grabbing back powers that had been passed to the three devolved governments.
Rather than being Wales’ representative at the Cabinet table, the Secretary of State has increasingly been seen as Westminster’s representative in Wales.
Since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister, the conventional view among academics and other political observers has been that successive Prime Ministers have used their Secretaries of State as a means of keeping the devolved governments in check.
Many members of Welsh Labour were angered that Jo Stevens, Keir Starmer’s appointment as Secretary of State for Wales, appeared to be continuing the perceived anti-devolution line pursued by her Tory predecessors. In recent weeks there was a particularly egregious example of this when the UK Government and the Secretary of State for Wales deliberately refrained from notifying the Welsh Government until the very last moment about a scheme to provide grants to news outlets.
Agreeing
Following ap Iorwerth’s call for the Secretary of State for Wales to be wound up, a number of politicians wrote social media posts agreeing to such a move.
Others concentrated on the logistics of contact between the UK and Welsh governments.
Jeff Jones, a former Labour leader of Bridgnd council, wrote: “Basically Rhun ap Iorwerth wants Welsh Ministers to be in the same position as Metro Mayors and their cabinet members who also deal directly with UK government ministers.”
Former Cardiff West Labour MP Lord Kevin Brennan posted a message that said: “Welsh Ministers have always dealt directly with their UK counterparts – it’s been the practice for years.”
Andy Burnham’s decision to appoint Secretaries of State in the three devolved nations suggests that the status quo is likely to remain for the foreseeable future.
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The post of Welsh Secretary is obsolete; it serves no real purpose anymore other than acting as a costly Whitehall overseer. Also, scrapping the Wales Office and, where necessary, relocating civil servants to Cardiff would keep the money in Wales. At present, it costs around £7 million annually to run and, frankly, the likes of anti‑devolution, antagonistic Jo Stevens have acted against our interests, and current minister Stephen Kinnock is no better. But I agree with Rhun ap Iorwerth that we need direct dialogue with ministers, not a middleman. That is the politics of yesteryear, not the present.
Fantastic stuff. Good to see Rhun getting stuck in. He’s quite right too. We need to be the noisiest neighbour possible…
And in other breaking news: the pope is catholic
And farage’s political career and reform are toast.
It’s amazing how conservative Labour are when it comes to the constitution. They believe in democracy providing it doesn’t step out of the box, even if the electorate votes for it.
The role of Welsh Secretary is akin to Viceroy of Wales. It serves no purpose
It serves their purpose…
Good point. So we must oppose loudly now, whilst Continuity Starmer is new in the job
We must be firm and realistic, it would be wishful to expect a ‘paradigm shift’ in Westminster’s thinking but the force must be constant and with unity of purpose, now no two persons imagine the same Eden and there is the rub and the world right now is out of Messiahs at this time in human evolution. Trouble is the Fat Shanks Effect is like being flooded and the contents of the cesspit and attendant rats and looters filling the home, despair at the mess they left and the ‘what could have beens’ of Clark of the Cinque Ports (roughly… Read more »
Since devolution in 1999 I have been of the view that the Secretary of State for Wales should be scrapped. It may well be that Wales needs a voive at the UK government cabinet table. If so, it certainly should be an individual appointed by the Senedd Government, although this may require legislation to permit it to happen.
Jeff Jones (Labour) is evidently not aware that Wales has primary legislative competence, hence the royal mace in the Senedd, so his comparison with the Metro Mayors who cannot pass primary legislation is very mistaken. When Rhun deals with UK ministers it’s telling, when the mayor of a metro area in England does it’s just asking. The role of Sec of State for Wales is redundant. Has not role. Time to cut out the Labour deadwood, an administrator of administrative affairs, save the taxpayer loads of cash or a budget which Wales can spend on frontline services.
UK MInisters’ collective responsibility means that the Secretary of State for Wales’ prime duty is to enact what the Westminster government wants. It may be unwritten but that’s the constitution.
With goodwill the system can operate as a two way channel to some extent. When goodwill is lost the SoS becomes a colonial official. Goodwill has gone and didn’t come back even with Labour at both ends.
I wouldn’t want the job. You can’t satisfy two masters, especially when really you only have one. Time to do away with it. If English Mayors get better channels the system will implode.
Waste of space the only one thing that comes to mind was when they shut Tower Pit i believe the Tory one was asked if the men could by the pit the present Tory government did not want to but he got it through they bought it with their reduncency money it made a couple of million profit each year for around 10 years just shows Thatcher closed profitable pits just because she thought us miners as Scum that is the only instance i can think off we dont need a Welsh Sec what we need is INDEPENDENCE
Gwydyr House should be transferred to the Welsh Gov and become a hub for apolitical intergovernmental relations.
WG already have some offices in Whitehall, or on the fringes of whitehall. No one uses it, it’s empty if you ever venture there
Point wasn’t about hot desk space for Senedd members on a theatre trip. Point was merging Wales Office into Welsh Government.
As someone with a bit of experience in the matter, I would consider merging Welsh and Scottish ministers. NI needs specific arrangements, especially if something kicks off, so I would leave NI SoS as it is. Though the SOS for a merged Scottish-Welsh office would probably end up focusing on issues north the border. In principle it would be great if eg the finance or economy minister has a direct line to the English equivalent. But the reality is they have their priorities and a massive in Tray of things to deal with also. And if English mayor’s get more… Read more »
Good idea, Liz would be a good fit now that Clark’s gone…
Need to learn from how other decentralised states manage this perfectly normal thing. Australia is a good example.
Yes. The Role of ‘Official Lickspittle’ should be jettisoned as soon as possible. Power to your elbow Rhun. We have had some awful Welsh Sec’s over the years, but none will ever be as abhorrent and repulsive as George ‘Lord Tonypandy’ Thomas!!!
What he should have said that there is No need of the Senedd it has failed completely Wales for twenty six years and drained every public service it must be closed to enable the public money is spent on public services by
It’s just full of self improvement jumped up people
Good evening Nigel!