Senedd in uproar as First Minister asked to describe what a woman is
Emily Price
The leader of the Senedd Conservatives has been accused of creating divisions and engaging in culture wars after he asked the First Minister to describe the “definition of a woman”.
The question from Welsh Tory leader Darren Millar came during FMQs on Tuesday (March 11) as the Senedd celebrated International Women’s Day which took place at the weekend.
Mr Millar said his Tory colleague Laura Anne Jones had tabled a similar question several months ago but hadn’t received an answer.
His line of questioning was greeted by groans from the Chamber as Baroness Eluned Morgan hit back saying that on a day to mark the celebration of women, she would would not engage in a “culture war”.
Rights
The leader of the Senedd Tories accused the FM of deliberately choosing not to answer the question.
He said: “It’s important that everybody understands that a woman is an adult human female so that we can protect women’s rights and ensure that women here in Wales flourish .”
Mr Millar called for sporting bodies in receipt of Welsh Government funds to be required to commit to “sex based categories” so that “women are not required to compete against biological males”.
The First Minister said the leader of the opposition hadn’t learned anything since the general election which saw all of Wales’ Conservative MPs wiped out.
Wipe out
She said: “What people care about is the economy, they care about the NHS, they care about housing, they care about education, they care about connecting communities.
“These are all the things that I am absolutely focused on and I am not playing games with you or culture wars because actually the people Wales are not interested in that.”
Heckling could be heard in the Chamber as Mr Millar responded saying he was a “pro-women’s rights potential First Minister”.
A backbencher could be heard telling Mr Millar to, “look around you, you’re on your own with this one.”
The Welsh Tory leader pressed the First Minister again saying: “We know that violence against women and girls has been soaring since the pandemic, and we know that most of the perpetrators are male.
“So, do you agree with me, First Minister, that the Welsh Government has a duty to ensure that all women in Wales should have access to safe single-sex spaces, including public toilets, leisure centre changing rooms, women’s refuges and hospital wards?”
Through the noise of further calling out from MSs, Eluned Morgan said she would “focus on the things that women really care about”.
Efforts
She said: “What they care about is feeling safe, is making sure that they have their rights, that their children are able to flourish, and that’s why this is a Government that, for years, has been focused on the things that really matter to women.
“The fact that we’ve given huge increases in childcare, for example, which you voted against, and you voted against, by the way.
“It’s really important for us to recognise that those are the things that people care about.”
Mr Millar’s gender query comes several weeks after his predecessor, Andrew RT Davies, attempted to table a similar question which read: “How many genders does the Welsh Government recognise?”.
The question was thrown out by the tabling office because it failed to comply with Senedd guidelines which state that a question should not out forward a particular point of view.
Commenting after FMQs, Mr Millar said the First Minister’s “inability to define what a woman is” undermines efforts to safeguard and advance women’s rights in Wales.
He said: “Women’s sports are in urgent need of action to protect fairness and encourage participation. Biological males who have gone through puberty have clear physical advantages, which is why sex-based categories in sport are essential to maintain fairness and integrity.
“This is about fairness and equality, Wales should be an inclusive society but that doesn’t mean we should ride roughshod over the hard-won rights of women and girls in Wales.”
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Jebus. The state of the Tory party at the moment in the UK. Bought and paid for. From Kemi through to Trumps fluffer in Wales, trump and musk work their hate through useful idiots.
What has that got to do with the article? This is a serious issue that impacts on women and girls.
It’s not a culture war to be able to say what a woman is, especially on International WOMEN’S Day. This is crucial if women are to have equal rights and a right to single sex spaces. The Senedd has on many occasions (esp via Mark Drakeford) said out loud that ‘Trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary identities are valid’. So clearly they DON’T know what a woman is. I applaud Darran Millar for his courage to face this head on. The Senedd has failed women and girls, simple as. It wants Wales to be the… Read more »
Ali what is your definition of a woman?
Adult Human Female. It’s not my definition it’s the scientific definition. XX Chromosomes.
So would Imane Khelf and Caster Semenya who have all women parts be classed as women or men in by your definition?
Women.
I couldn’t have put it better myself.
So, you define a woman as an Adult Human Female with a two letter XX Chromosome only? If that is the case then by definition you must therefore accept that there are more than 2 genders then because 1 in 600 men has a 3 letter XYX Chromosome. How do you define a man with a 3 letter Chromosome? For that matter how do you define a person who has believed that all their life they are female because they have feminine features and a vagina, but internal testes? For the record these persons have an officially recognised condition called… Read more »
No that’s not the scientific description. That is Posie Parker’s definition of a woman created to sell tshirts. Here is A scientific definition of a woman from an actual MD Female: The traditional definition of female was “an individual of the sex that bears young” or “that produces ova or eggs”. However, things are not so simple today. Female can be defined by physical appearance, by chromosome constitution (see Female chromosome complement), or by gender identification. Female chromosome complement: The large majority of females have a 46, XX chromosome complement (46 chromosomes including two X chromosomes). A minority of females have other chromosome constitutions such as… Read more »
Looks like certain people are camping on this thread
Someone in WG needs to be paying attention to this issue given the various employment tribunals that are currently going on regarding the right of NHS staff to single sex changing rooms and the upcoming Supreme Court judgement re For Women Scotland, plus the effect that the Cass Review should have on the details of the LGBTQ+ Action Plan the WG has currently.
Are they really this complacent? Glad that someone is trying to get some answers out of them!
The problem with SINGLE sex spaces is that soon the NHS and other public bodies will be required to provide four or even five different changing rooms and toilets. Principally this will happen because the insistence of people whose understanding of gender based biology is limited to GCSE Biology, which doesn’t even begin to describe the complexity of gender at birth, let alone after puberty!
I think Prof Robert Winston, IVF expert, and Richard Dawkins have scientific understanding beyond GCSE biology – have a look at what they say.
Neither Prof Winston nor richard Dawkins have expertise in this area
How many sexes are there, Kurt?
More than 2.
What is the third sex Kurt? And don’t say ‘intersex’ because they are not a gotcha for your argument – people with differences in sexual development are categorically either male or female, they are not both or neither and they are not a third sex. And they are not impressed at being weaponised by the ignorant.
That’s not the problem with single sex spaces Kurt – what you’re describing is actually the precise problem with gender identity ideology. Provision of space is quite simple – male/female/mixed sex. That’s all that’s needed; and a clear statement as to what sex is.
It’s not complicated at all.
Mixed sex eh? So, you expect post operative Trans women to change in front of post operative Trans men. Ah yes, the ‘they can go over there’ mentality. I am not opposed to mixed sex changing rooms and toilets because there are more than 2 sexes/genders, however if someone doesn’t consider themselves mixed sex they shouldn’t be made to use a facility they doesn’t fit with their gender identity. The only ideology that is at fault is that of social Conservative dogma. The past should be remembered, but there was much wrong with it and telling people that they HAD… Read more »
Indeed they do.
Why can’t the FM just answer the question? It’s an easy one! (Woman=Adult human female). They talk about keeping women and girls safe, and purport to know what is important to women in Wales, yet they are quick to ignore issues women’s groups raise and keep them out of consultation. Absolutely embarrassing they refuse to or struggle to define what a woman is.
It’s the same when you ask any of them to define ‘gender identity’. They’re outraged because they know the answer will sound utterly idiotic.
Ah yes gender definition from GCSE Biology, which doesn’t even mention Feminine Testicular Syndrome
Probably in a 100 years time people will read about all this debate about trans stuff and wonder why as the world was heading towards a major crisis likely a war and a climate crisis that anyone had time to talk about it at all. It is a new theology where the arguments are as pointless as how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
If you can’t define what a woman is, how will you recognise and protect women’s rights?
This is not a ‘culture war’.
The FM knows the answer – she’s kowtowing to the Westminster party with this pathetic word play.
Defining a woman is easy is it? Really?! Does your definition incorporate Feminine Testicular Syndrome?
The most expensive seaside Punch and Judy Show in Christendom…
Ask Rev Millar what he prays for…eternal segregation,
And how old is the Planet ?
Give over, people are watching…
If you have a penis your a man
If you have a vagina your a woman.
Problem solved.
This guy is way above his pay grade, he should be on Oxford Street with a sandwich board around his neck…
It breaks one’s heart, 3 million people look to this place for a good curator but it is a parish shambles of a council…they don’t grow into the job, they reduce it to this…after getting on their knees before they break their fast…this is not the Secular building the Law says it should be…
I can’t stand Trump, Reform or the Tories but this is not a culture war point. The culture warriors are those who dogmatically refuse to listen to women on this and spout unscientific nonsense. *Labour and Plaid – for goodness sake’s WAKE UP and look at the polling!!* Look at what happened to the democrats in the states when they refused to engage with the obvious problems these policies cause. The latest polling shows British women are fine with trans identification but do NOT want to share eg changing rooms with males. (See Mumbles changing room story). Parents don’t want… Read more »
And there’s that BUT ….
Trump is driving trans people out of ANY place in society. You try to distance yourself from him but not that attempted eradication. Did you think it would stop at toilets?
Hate never stops where you want it to. There’s always someone worse, willing to take your biases to the next level
This is the same Welsh Labour Party that tried to implement gender quotas in the Senedd. In other words gender doesn’t matter where you go to use the toilet, but it matters if you want to stand for an election. Bizarre logic.
It’s not a culture war issue it’s a Woman’s Right issue, and any political party who can’t tell the difference between a man and a women (which is all of them but the Tories apparently) are not going to be able to address the major problems that this country face’s.
The comments here seem to miss the point. For the leader of the conservative party, which has done so little on women’s rights over the years, to use international women’s day as a way to attack the female first minister on a wedge issue for political gain is simply disgusting to me. This should be regardless of your opinion on gender.
Well said, first principal…
He is baiting the girls in the playground…
He should not be an MS, he is far too immature and compromised…
It’s not a wedge issue for 50% of the population, the majority of whom, according to polling, accept the right of trans ID people to live freely, but not for trans ID males to use single sex female spaces.
Maybe wedge issue is the wrong word but let’s be real: The first minister shouldn’t be engaging with petty questioning like this that achieves nothing but demeaning the Senedd. The full response (and the position I believe Welsh Labour hold) is that generally a women is a female adult human but that there are some rare exceptions (using the qualification ‘trans’) – due to people born genuinely inter-sex and people who have fully transitioned (so no longer share the same biological traits as their gender of birth) or come from societies that do not place such an importance on sex… Read more »
There’s that slur again. The poll was carried out by a non governmental conservative owned polling company on behalf of the Telegraph. Responses were by open invite on the internet. Not a scientific poll by any stretch of the imagination. From an actual scientific poll 45% of men are opposed to trans people existing, but only 15% of women. totting up to a total of 30% opposing
You seem determined to see bad faith.
For the second time, I think Trump is appalling and in the US they are swinging from one appalling extreme to another on this. Both extremes are causing horrific problems for people.
It’s not UK women standing up for single sex spaces that are trying to get trans people in the US fired or pride parades banned – that’s the American far right.
Telling British women to just be quiet about our own experience or Trump will be emboldened is nonsensical. Start being reasonable.
Here’s Yougov’s methodology so people can judge for themselves whether their surveys are robust.https://yougov.co.uk/about/panel-methodology
If the First Minister simply answered the question it would not be a wedge issue, or indeed an issue at all. The fact that she refuses to answer the question tells us that she has made herself hostage to the barmiest social movement of all time.
Well said Darren Miller. A woman is an adult female.
There are plenty of adult women who are transgender. So yeah I agree
Where did all the comments disappear to – they’re there in the archived copy of this article?
Comments get voted down and then disappear after a certain number of down-votes
Thank you for explaining this. In my view it is a very negative feature of this website. It allows unpopular views to be suppressed too easily; it would only take a dozen or so determined people to make views they disapprove of disappear.
I’ll feed that back certainly – fors and againsts, but it’s only the odd story (such as this) where it impacts (and keeps us busy behind the scenes too) but there’s always social media for conversations in the wild.
Thank you. Social media most certainly does exist – but tends to be very polarised. Nation.Cymru really adds value by providing a forum where the opposing schools of thought have to address each other’s arguments, and it is a pity if zealots on either side are able to sabotage that by a concerted campaign of downvoting.
So single issue campaigners (as are evident in this thread) can mob opinions they disagree with out of existence?
That isn’t helpful in comment threads like this. Bigots need to face the facts and deal with reality. How can we do that if they can just down-vote inconvenient facts away?
The FM needs to have an eye on Scotland where failure to answer this question and dimissing women’s rights as a culture war has already cost two FMs their jobs and could yet topple a third. She needs to read the room. I’m no fan of Miller but he is by no means ‘on his own’ in wanting an answer to this question.
Hopefully, the cases outstanding and to come, and the forthcoming judgement from the Supreme Court (which is considering this very question, right now), will put an end to this ‘culture war’ blather.
Okay, question for you then, where do post operative Trans women change and use the toilet if they’re not allowed to use the Women’s facilities? For that matter where do post operative Trans men change and use the toilets because they’re effected by these issues too.
TW can use the mixed sex (‘gender neutral’) facilities if they don’t want to use the male’s – and the women who identify as men can use the same or those allocated for women.
Women are not human shields for men, no matter their identity. And it’s worth remembering that more that 95% of men who identify as women have no surgery at all.
Single sex facilities are a legal requirement and accommodation for those who have a gender identity issue can be provided by mixed sex facilities. Simple.
Weird, he’s never done a thing for actual women’s rights, and like the rest of his party, he’s quite 50’s minded when it comes to women.
It’s almost as if he’s carefully picked a certain day to say very specific things….
Bandwagon jumping is all the Tories live for.
Worse than that he outright opposes Reproductive rights for women. He wants Abortions banned and the pill only to be given to married women, with their husband’s permission. Very 50s indeed
If Eluned Morgan thinks that this isn’t a topic that causes concern for the citizens of Cymru, she’s very wrong. Not in touch with her electorate. Ask Nicola, Humza and all the women that have won court cases on this issue
Because letting trans people exist is massively hurting the economy. Or something. Once again the “Welsh” Conservatives have no ideas about how to improve living standards in Wales.