Senior Labour minister clashes with Tory over rail devolution comments

Emily Price 

A row has broken out in the Senedd over comments a senior Labour minister made about devolving rail infrastructure to Wales.

Earlier this month, the Welsh Government was accused of reversing its position on rail devolution after Counsel General and Minister for Delivery Julie James said she was “not sure” Wales wanted rail powers devolved from Westminster.

James made the comments during an interview with BBC Wales, appearing to step back from Welsh Labour’s long-standing view that full rail devolution is necessary to address chronic underfunding.

“I’m not sure we’re wanting the devolution of it,” she had said.

“Really what we want is the funding formulas to be right and the organisation of it to be right so that we have a loud voice for Wales in what is done in Wales and actually we have a very good working relationship with the UK government about which railway stations will be invested in.

“I’m not a separatist politician at all. I want to work inside the UK infrastructure. It’s very important to me that the Great Western Railway line goes all the way to London seamlessly, you know, I don’t want it to only work to the border.

“If you did devolve the whole of rail infrastructure to Wales, you’d want to be really certain that all the money that you needed for that came with, I’d be very concerned whether that would happen as a one off event.”

‘Undermined’

In the Senedd on Tuesday (January 28) Shadow Counsel General Tom Giffard asked James to justify the remarks and accused her of undermining the Welsh Government’s stance that rail should be devolved.

James hit back, saying the Welsh Conservative’s question was nothing to do with her Counsel General and Minister for Delivery portfolio.

She argued that the selective comments quoted by the press were part of a longer interview.

James said: “I said in a much longer interview that what we would want very much was the funding to be devolved at the same time, and that devolution is a journey and not an event.

“So, if you’re going to quote me, at least read the whole speech. Again, I’m afraid this interaction between the UK Government and the Welsh Government is not within my portfolio.

“You need to address your questions to the Deputy First Minister or the First Minister.”

Tense

Holding up a copy of a news article quoting James, Giffard replied: “I’ve got the quote here: ‘I’m not sure we’re wanting the devolution of it,’ she said.”

The pair then launched into a tense argument across the Chamber causing the Senedd’s Llywydd to intervene.

As Giffard tried to continue with his questions, James ordered him to “always read to the end of the page” arguing he hadn’t read her whole speech.

Holding up a copy of James’ comments the Shadow Counsel General said he had read all of the remarks she had made.

Blocking Giffard from asking his question again, the senior Labour minister said he had only read a journalistic report.

Turning to the Senedd’s speaker, Elin Jones, Giffard asked: “Llywydd, is this a question and answer session?”

Jones replied: “This isn’t a conversation between the two Members. Ask your question, Tom Giffard, and you’ll have the right to reply.”

Policing

Giffard said: “I see very little point in asking this Counsel General very many questions, because she just fails to answer them.”

James replied: “Ask me one in my portfolio.”

Giffard’s question on further devolution of powers to Wales came amid tensions within Labour over the UK Government’s recently announced plans to overhaul the policing system in England and Wales.

The proposals will not include the devolution of policing and justice to Wales – despite Welsh Labour’s long standing stance that this should happen.

The Shadow Counsel General said: “I’m asking the Counsel General to justify the remarks that she has made, but she seems unwilling to do it, even when presented with the evidence.

“So, on a consistent basis, there is an inconsistent approach, isn’t there, at the heart of this Welsh Government, where you’ve got a First Minister calling for powers to be devolved, only to be undermined by the Counsel General, who is then saying that those powers are not needed in the first place.

“How can we have a situation where we have a Welsh Government that is inconsistent about what it wants within it? There’s no wonder, is there, that a Welsh Labour MP, an unnamed Welsh Labour MP, said there’s no way policing would be devolved, despite the First Minister’s calls this week.

“So, how can it be that this Welsh Government, this Welsh Labour Party, expects the public to take it seriously and to listen to the things that it says, when its own party is not listening to it in Westminster?”

Budgets

James hit out at Giffard again, claiming he wasn’t listening to her answers.

She said: “It’s very important not to carry on reading things out when somebody has already answered part of your question.

“Read the whole speech, don’t read the journalistic outcome of it. I will be very clear for you: of course we want policing devolved.

“We want policing devolved with its budgets wholly intact and in a coherent fashion. I was asked the question, ‘Do we want it right this second?’

“So, it’s very important context, Tom Giffard. The other thing I would say is that it would be really nice, as a spokesperson for the Counsel General, if you ever asked me anything in my own portfolio.”

Devolution

Speaking after the exchange Giffard told Nation.Cymru that the Welsh Labour Government didn’t know what it says from one day to the next.

He said: “One day they want devolution of rail in Wales, the next they decide they don’t.

“There’s no wonder the UK Government doesn’t take them seriously when they aren’t consistent about what exactly they’re asking for in the first place.

“How can they expect the public to listen to what they have to say when they can’t even make their own party listen?

“This confused, tired Labour Party has completely gone off the rails.”