Shouting breaks out across Senedd chamber as legality of members switching parties is questioned
Ella Groves – ICNN Senedd Reporter
A row broke out in the Senedd chamber after a Reform MS questioned the legality of elected members switching political parties and accussed a fellow member of “fraud”.
The question, from Jason O’Connell, followed the high profile defection of Pen-y-Bont Bro Morgannwg MS Sarah Cooper Lesadd’s from Reform UK to Plaid Cymru.
Questioning counsel general, Elfyn Llwyd MS – the Welsh Government’s legal advisor – on Tuesday September 22, Mr O’Connell asked what happens “when a candidate asks voters to back one party, gets elected on that party’s manifesto and then walks away from those commitments?”
The Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr MS was then interrupted as disruption broke out across the Siambr.
Mr O’Connell continued: “The member keeps their seat, alongside their very generous salary. Now, some learned legal minds, such as yourself, could consider that to be fraud by misrepresentation.”
He pushed the counsel general to share if Welsh electoral law provides any “legal protection” for voters where “a candidate’s conduct after election departs from the political representation they were elected under.”
He added: “Does Plaid Cymru still consider that politicians who mislead constituents should be criminalised?
“And have you considered that, in order to protect Welsh democracy, the member should do the right thing and resign?”
Responding, Mr Llwyd said he didn’t have his “wellingtons” with him as he’s “never heard such a load of muck”.
He continued: “I’m not getting involved in the politics of it, but is the member seriously saying that nobody within Reform has ever switched sides during the currency of an election?”
The counsel general concluded: “I’m the legal officer. I thank him for that question, but it’s not for me.”
“Appalling”
Sarah Cooper-Lesadd herself also questioned the counsel general, asking Mr Llywd on the legalities of “artificially generated content in devolved elections”.
The Pen-y-Bont Bro Morgannwg MS drew attention to the use of AI to target women in politics.
She shared an example of a Kent councillor who told LBC that she is thinking of quitting politics due to sexualised images of her being flyposted near her home and workplace.
Ms Cooper-Lesadd continued: “It makes her feel watched, she said, and unsafe in the town she represents. Other women have said they are now considering whether they should stand at all.
“This is a real cost, not for one councillor, but for every single woman who decides the abuse is not worth it.”
Describing the misogyny as “appalling”, Mr Llwyd said that while it does not take away the “very real problem of abuse” there is support out there for those wishing to stand for election.
He said: “Ahead of next year’s local elections, we are funding Elect Her to support female candidates in Wales.
“The programme includes a digital self-defence and self-care toolkit, including resources to support candidates to create their own digital self-care plan and strategies for dealing with online abuse.”
Mr Llwyd added: “Politicians and candidates should always report any harmful online material to Ofcom and also the police as appropriate.
“All digital campaign material must clearly show who it is being promoted by. These digital imprints ensure that there is accountability for all official campaign material.”
Support our Nation today
For the price of a cup of coffee a month you can help us create an independent, not-for-profit, national news service for the people of Wales, by the people of Wales.
Get more trusted Welsh news
Choose Nation.Cymru as a preferred source in Google News to see more of our journalism.
Eh, what about when Laura Ann jones defected to deform?
Certainly if it proven in senedd that it is illegal, then she needs to apologise and resign.
The introduction of the party list for our 2026 election should have enabled a more rigorous set of rules relating to “transfers”. LAJ defected per 2026 and was returned on a Reform list. The fault or blame lies with those who drafted such a lax framework that will continue until we revert to electing candidates rather than party lists with added scope for recall where the electorate feels cheated.
When you believe so strongly in free speech, you want people to be criminalised for defecting FROM your party but not TO your party. Rancid hypocrisy.
Sarah is just living rent-free in O’Connell’s mind at this point.
While I loath to agree with anything said by Reform, on this occasion a broken clock is right twice each day. When any member defects from one party to another, it should automatically trigger a by-election. I know that technically we vote for the candidate not the party in this country, but the reality is we vote for the party. While I don’t agree with the criminal false representation argument put forth by Jason O’Connell, people can change their hearts/minds after all, but, if a person is elected under a party banner they should be expected to remain with that… Read more »
In the last Senedd elections we voted for the party not the individual, and yes anyone crossing the floor should trigger a by election, it’s just mind blowing that Reform are making such a fuss about this when you consider the majority of Reform in the Senedd are ex tories, they really should wind their necks in.
Yes indeed. No individual names appeared on the ballot paper in the last Senedd election. You put your cross beside a Party name. This completely removes the figleaf that in this country we vote for individuals not parties, that the individual is supposed to use their judgment about what is best for the country, not slavishly stick to Party or constituents’ orders and that changing parties is just exercising that judgment. Under the new Welsh election rules there is not even that flimsy work around to let you paint changing parties in the Senedd as democratic, however much you may,… Read more »
I agree. That should be set in law before the next general election.
” I know that technically we vote for the candidate not the party in this country,”
Herein lies the rub Not in the case of the Senedd They choose the candidates and the pecking order, You just vote for the party,
He seems to forget the majority of their MPs are defectors
There are no by-elections in the Senedd, were she to step down she would be automatically replaced by the next Reform candidate on the list.
They were more than happy with the system when Laura Ann Jones and James Evans defected to them.
Is the system right? Probably not. But all defections are allowed under the current rules.
Most of reform are failed Tories.
Jason a bit thick. Give him time.
“Fraud by misrepresentation”
Where does that leave the Brexit ringleaders who enriched themselves as a direct result of a result only achieved by misrepresenting the facts.
If Jason O’Connell MS wishes to raise the issue of fraud when an elected member switches party to one other than she was elected for, perhaps that matter should be referred to Laura Anne Jones MS who was elected a Conservative in the last Senedd before defecting to ReformUK, rather ironically after being caught attempting to fiddle her expenses. If Elfyn Llwyd needs wellies, ReformUK needs waders, as they’re up to their necks in muck.
Weird that they would want their new deputy leader to appologies and resign or prosecuted???
Given the party list system and the multi member constituencies we have then the most pragmatic adjustment would be for all parties to take part in a ‘gentleman,s’ agreement that if any member resigns from any party then they must stand as independents for the rest of the Senedd term.
Nothing to stop those that resign from a party for whatever reason then voting or contributing to debates in a way that their conscience dictates.
As fas as I am concerned any politician switching parties is not to be trusted as they are fence sitters who join the strongest gang. Not worth their salt. If they were fighting in a war they would join the side that appeared to be winning.
Regarding your analogy
Even if the side you chose to fight for commits war crimes?
They need to change the rules. Any member leaving a party and still an Ms is defrauding the will of the people. Sadly in this case it would be benefit the racist, hate the wrong type of fre speech Ltd company. But the point of our voting system was to reflect opinions. Still find it funny that the Ms in question hoodwinked the fools
Oh, well done Jason O’Connell. His intervention is now going to make it difficult nay, impossible for Tories to slime sideways into Deform or Deformees to slime sideways into store. Where no brain cell exists, it’s hard to attribute the word ‘thick’. What a catastrophic error? How can the sh••e (right) ever unite? They are now superglued to their seats. Are you sitting comfortably? We may be some time.
They are so slimy and deceitful, they would still accept tori defectives into their arms and tell us that we only imagined Jason said this stuff. It never really happened. It will be on iplayer though.