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Wales could have independence referendum ‘on the same day as Scotland’

16 Oct 2019 3 minutes Read
Delyth Jewell speaking to the crowd at an independence march in Merthyr Tydfil. Lluniau gan / Pictures by Lluniau Lleucu

Plaid Cymru are considering calling for a Welsh independence referendum on the same day as Scotland’s second independence referendum.

In an interview with Scotland’s The National newspaper, Assembly Member Delyth Jewell said there was a danger that Wales could end up in “no-man’s land” if Scotland leaves the UK before the Welsh get a chance to vote.

A recent YouGov poll put support for Welsh independence at 41% if it meant the country remaining part of the EU.

Speaking at the SNP conference, Delyth Jewell told The National: “When Scotland has its next independence referendum Wales should have its own independence referendum on the same day.

“There’s been this acknowledgement from [Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford] that if Scotland votes to become independent, which I think it would, then we would have to reassess things.

“Now I don’t want us to be in a no-man’s lands after Scotland votes to become independent because I don’t think Westminster will want to grant Wales – because it’s in their gift – their own referendum at a later date.

“Then there’ll just be prevarication and goodness knows how long that would last. When Scotland has its next referendum, and its defining referendum, we need to have one on the same day.”

 

‘Failure’

Jewell said the devolution referendums happening on the same date in 1997 set a “precedent”.

She added: “They have to grant another referendum for Scotland, what on earth would be their basis for not granting the same referendum for Wales?

“When we had the devolution referendums, they happened at the same time so there is precedent.

“If Scotland did, and I think Scotland would vote to be independent, there would be even less of an incentive from Westminster to let Wales go or to let Wales determine our own future. For our own sake I think it has to happen on the same day. Or at least it’s an idea we should really pursue.”

The AM, who only took her seat at the start of the year, said there had been a change in attitudes towards independence in recent months.

Jewell said: “I used to think independence was something that would happen for Wales within my lifetime, but things have changed so significantly in the past six months with everything to do with Brexit and how much the Westminster system has been exposed as a complete failure, I think that really it would almost be unconscionable for us not to be planning for our referendum very soon.

“Which is why I think work needs to be going in now, and again I’ve been calling for the Welsh government to be putting plans in place looking at how an independence referendum would work.”

A Welsh Labour spokesperson said: “As Mark Drakeford outlined in his Keir Hardie Lecture last week, he is committed to building a successful Wales, in a reformed United Kingdom, at the heart of the European Union.

“Neither nationalism nor populism will secure Wales the future it deserves.”

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Joanne Davies
Joanne Davies
2 years ago

There’d be a 45% turnout with a 15% yes vote.

Powys Fadog
Powys Fadog
2 years ago
Reply to  Joanne Davies

And I may win the Lottery soon.
Was that a guess?

Joanne Davies
Joanne Davies
2 years ago
Reply to  Powys Fadog

Is that after you re-ran the first lottery because you didn’t like the results? 😉

Richard Jenkins
Richard Jenkins
2 years ago
Reply to  Joanne Davies

I think you’ll find they rerun the lottery every week?

pete
pete
2 years ago
Reply to  Joanne Davies

There’s more chance of winning the lottery than the people of wales voting for partition

Dewi Evans
Dewi Evans
2 years ago
Reply to  Joanne Davies

Joanne. I’m still waiting to hear what right wing politics you want for Wales. Not good enough saying ‘right wing’ you know. Hardly a manifesto is it?

Glenn swingler
Glenn swingler
2 years ago

Now is the time to break away. Westminster continues to fail Wales at every level. It’s time for us to join other small independent nations (all these in europe are smaller..Iceland, Cyprus, Malta, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Latvia, kosovo, etc)
It’s time Wales was allowed to forge it’s own future and start to rebuild the country. No longer at the whim of an England controlled parliament that looks after its own at the expense of others.

Simon Gruffydd
Simon Gruffydd
2 years ago
Reply to  Glenn swingler

FYI, Iceland is not in the EU, nor is the Faroes, nor is the Isle of Man, (nor is the City of London by the way) and a host of other small nations that are generally much more prosperous and free than EU bound nations. There is is no need to ‘join’ anything. Kosovo is a Albanian occupied part of Serbia, complements of NATO, so not a good example. Other than that, I agree.

Jonathan Gammond
Jonathan Gammond
2 years ago
Reply to  Glenn swingler

Kosovo had autonomy under the Yugoslav constitution. It was Slobodan Milosevic’s policy of over-riding that autonomy from 1989 onwards as a means to bolster his position in Yugoslav and later Serbian politics which radicalized the situation and led to the eventual secession of Kosova from Serbia.

Steawrt
Steawrt
2 years ago
Reply to  Glenn swingler

You have an assembly more than the English the English tax payers pay for the Scots and Welsh best of luck in the EU federal state …we will all be knackered as our command and control of all UK forces is being handed over to Eu eventually England will be split up as well as the Elites march towards a world gov. If the running of the NHS in Wales is anything to go by ( extremely badly run) ….you soon will be down the tubes.

Edward Evans
Edward Evans
2 years ago

An excellent idea. This would bring the issue to the fore and enable the pros and cons to be seriously considered.

Jonathan Gammond
Jonathan Gammond
2 years ago
Reply to  Edward Evans

See 2016 referendum for evidence of how the pros and cons are seriously considered in referenda.

Richard Jenkins
Richard Jenkins
2 years ago

That would be a mistake in my humble opinion! Two issues. First, we would have a much better chance of winning that referendum if Scotland has already voted for independence? Secondly, there is an argument that as a non signatory to any ‘union’ and the true circumstance being we are a subjugated, conquered ‘region’ of England, we don’t require a polarising and potentially divisive referendum? UN Charter of Human Rights, I understand, suggests strongly that Cymru ‘only’ needs to elect a government to the Senedd on an independence mandate? That government then would have a Democratic right to declare self… Read more »

Simon Gruffydd
Simon Gruffydd
2 years ago

You could be right about that. Ditto Cornwall.

Simon Gruffydd
Simon Gruffydd
2 years ago

Plaid Cymru do not support independence because they want to rejoin the EU. There is no constitutional or economic independence within the EU. They are simply anti-UK driven – which is fair enough – if they were honest about it – but they are not. In my opinion there should be no referendum for a constitutionally independent Wales until there is ample evidence that it would win. To hold one too soon would delay independence for Wales for generations, possibly forever, (as Plaid Cymru and Labour’s population replacement plan, a.k.a. Nation of Sanctuary, unfolds).

pete
pete
2 years ago
Reply to  Simon Gruffydd

Spot on in every point except the idea of welsh independence from the UK is for the birds, for all I despise them Ein Gwlad are putting forward honest proposals.

Neil McEvoy
Neil McEvoy
2 years ago

A lot of work needs to be done to put us in a position to win any referendum on sovereignty. The YES movement is still young. I recently put a proposal to the Assembly that the Welsh Government pay to instruct lawyers to draft a constitution and for economists to be instructed to design an economic pathway to sovereignty. Not a single Plaid Cymru AM supported my proposal. We must start fleshing our what a Sovereign Wales will look like. When we have a referendum, we want to be able to win it. There is no glory in defeat, which… Read more »

Huw Davies
Huw Davies
2 years ago
Reply to  Neil McEvoy

” Not a single Plaid Cymru AM supported my proposal.” That sums up 2 things.

1. The level of deep irrational hatred towards you, Neil, conditions their collective response – a.k.a groupthink, a toxic condition that inhibits creativity.

2. Plaid’s leadership is not ready for, possibly frightened of, ever being in a position of sole responsibility for stewardship of a devolved government, so independence, the real deal, terrifies them. That yellow streak justifies their “close relationship” with the LibDems.

Robert Tyler
Robert Tyler
2 years ago

‘Jewell said the devolution referendums happening on the same date in 1997 set a “precedent”.’ The devolution refs in 1997 did NOT take place on the same date.

Jonathan Gammond
Jonathan Gammond
2 years ago
Reply to  Robert Tyler

The 1979 Scottish and Welsh referenda were held on the same day. It is up to others to decide how important such a fact was in the final results. I expect it meant less coverage of the vote in Wales than would have otherwise been the case.

Dewi Evans
Dewi Evans
2 years ago

Delyth. On board with Independence. But the 1997 referendum was, I think, a week AFTER the Scottish referendum.

Gary Day-Davies
Gary Day-Davies
2 years ago

Just noted that the Spanish government have incarcerated each of the pro independance catalan leaders. Allowing an independant Scotland to reapply to the eu would undermine Spanish refusal for catalan independance…. There’s the issue that the EU would require all member States to have a central bank and sig liquidity..

Aled Gwyn Job
Aled Gwyn Job
2 years ago

Disagree entirely with Delyth Jewell here. This is a completely counter-productive move. Hasn’t she heard of the old Welsh proverb ‘Os na fydd gryf, bydd gyfrwys’ ( if you can’t be strong be cunning).?? Let Scotland do the heavy lifting with their own referendum first. It will be brutal and dirty and furious in 2020. 2016 will be a picnic im the park compared to this. Let us just observe and learn from it. Richard Jenkins is totally on the money here. We in Wales could by-pass the need for a divisive and baleful indy referendum of our own by… Read more »

Huw Davies
Huw Davies
2 years ago
Reply to  Aled Gwyn Job

Aled You miss a major factor in all this. Your vision, which is sound, will need a campaign of sustained communication and debate with the electorate. Campaigners will need to listen to that electorate and translate needs and priorities into a form that can be integrated into the mandate for independence.

All this involves some serious heavy lifting which is a type of work no longer attractive to Plaid’s leadership group who have gone wholesale for the “soundbite and rhetoric” mix. As for Yes it’s future effectiveness depends on how it goes beyond the Saturday demo stage.

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