Wales’ new minister for the constitution quizzed on government’s plans for further devolution and independence

Ella Groves – ICNN Senedd Reporter

Wales needs more say over justice, policing, and rail investment, the new constitution minister has said.

Plaid Cymru’s Dafydd Trystan Davies faced questions from Senedd colleagues for the first time on Tuesday June 16.

The Caerdydd Fynnon Taf MS, who was appointed to the cabinet role last month, has responsibility for overseeing the government’s priorities, supporting oversight of the cabinet office, and constitutional affairs.

He is also responsible for the potential devolution of justice and policing.

Adrian Mason, Reform’s shadow constitution minister, challenged Dr Trystan Davies on Plaid’s plans.

Mr Mason said: “Plaid Cymru has long argued for more powers for Wales and greater responsibility here in Cardiff Bay. But Plaid cannot present itself as a new beginning after the Labour-Plaid era when, at key moments, it helped keep Labour in power.

“After 27 years of Labour-led devolution in health, education, transport and the economy, does the minister accept that Plaid shares some responsibility for that record?”

He added: “Why should Wales hand more powers to the same governing consensus that helped create the failures it now claims it can fix?”

Dr Trystan Davies emphasised that Plaid Cymru is a “new government”, set out on a “new course” which focuses on “the people’s priorities”.

He continued: “I think it is clear to everyone in this chamber that the legacy of 27 years of Labour government led to their election result. That is why so many of our fellow countrymen and women voted for a new leadership for Wales, and that is a Plaid Cymru leadership.”

The Reform shadow minister also questioned the minister on Plaid’s desire for independence.

He said: “Plaid’s manifesto is clear: it wants independence. But in the latest polling… the people of Wales do not. So, is the government pursuing independence by instalments – more powers, more separation, more institutions – without first asking the Welsh people the direct question?”

Mr Mason called for the minister to commit to “no constitutional change by the backdoor, no move towards independence, and no further substantive devolution without clear public consent”.

Dr Trystan Davis reiterated the First Minister’s election-time commitment that there will be no independence referendum during this Senedd term.

He then addressed the question of greater powers for Wales and said: “Where there are opportunities to improve the lives of the people in Wales, then [the Welsh Government] will take them.”

He said: “We are on a constitutional journey in Wales. It is a journey that is best served by consensus and collaboration, and that is what we will seek to do.”

Sam Rowlands, of the Welsh Conservatives, echoed the Mr Mason’s questions on Plaid Cymru’s constitutional reform plans.

He called on the minister to reveal how much time and resources are likely to be spent on “constitutional and independence-pursuing work” and to clarify how this will affect the government’s ability to focus on core public services.

Dr Trystan Davies said his party’s focus on constitutional matters will be in line with the priorities set out in its election manifesto.

He said: “On the constitution, [we] will be focused on those very specific priorities that we set out in our manifesto that will improve people’s lives – on water, on policing, on justice, on the Crown Estate, to improve people’s lives in Wales.”

Plaid MS Peredur Owen Griffiths, of Casnewydd Islwyn, asked his party colleague to share what steps he is taking to establish a national commission on Wales’ constitutional future.

Dr Trystan Davies noted that, in line with Plaid’s 100-day plan, a new national commission overseeing progress on further devolution and engaging with the public in a “national conversation about Wales’ constitutional future” is being developed.

He committed to updating the Senedd as the work progresses.

Further devolution

The minister also faced questions on potential areas of further devolution to Wales.

Plaid Cymru’s Niamh Salkeld, of Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni, asked him for an update on the progress being made to devolve rail funding to Wales.

She provided the example of Abertillery, describing the town as a “prime example of a community that is being held back by the UK Government’s chronic underfunding of Wales’ rail network.”

Discussing the proposed Abertillery spur – a passenger railway branching off the Ebbw Vale line at Aberbeeg to reconnect Abertillery to the rail network – Ms Salkeld said the proposed rail line would improve access to jobs and education, increase footfall for local businesses, and support town centre regeneration.

Dr Trystan Davies responded: “The figures are stark. The UK Government has promised an investment of £445 million, which sounds like a large figure, but when you compare it to the £4.5 billion owed to Wales under HS2 money, it is merely a drop in the ocean.

“That £4.5 billion would allow us to invest in Abertillery, it would allow us to invest in rail and bus services across the country.

“It is our fair share, it is chwarae teg for Wales. That is why I am proud that my colleague, the deputy minister for transport [Mark Hooper], is pursuing this case energetically with the UK Government. It is only right, it is only fair.”

Ms Salkeld’s calls were supported by Labour’s Mike Hedges, who said he has “consistently argued for the devolution of rail funding.”

Mr Hedges, of Gwyr Abertawe, said: “Asymmetric devolution has not worked. It hasn’t worked in Britain, it hasn’t worked in Spain. It is important that rail funding is devolved. The main question is how should the funding be calculated.”

He pressed the minister to share which form of rail funding formula he would prefer: “relative population, relative population with the 20% addition that the Barnett formula provides, relative track length, or relative passenger numbers?”

Dr Trystan Davies noted that Wales would do “pretty well” out of relative track length due to the geography of the country.

He added: “We have historically received a disproportionately low share of rail enhancement funding from the UK Government.

“Transport for Wales set out a vision of £14 billion of rail spending. That is the kind of rail funding that Wales needs to improve our rail services and to ensure that we have a 21st century rail system.”

The cabinet minister also faced questions on the devolution of policing, led by Reform MS Catherine Cullen.

Ms Cullen, of Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni, told the Siambr her constituents don’t want to see money “wasted” on devolving more powers, they want “better jobs and higher salaries”.

Questioning the minister on the financial impacts of further devolution she said: “Why does this Plaid government think this should be a priority, when so many of the public services that people rely upon are already under considerable pressure?”

Dr Trystan Davies noted that devolving policing to Wales has been recommended by a series of independent commissions, including the Silk Commission in 2014.

He clarified that Plaid’s priorities remain as the NHS, schools, the economy, child poverty and childcare, but with regard to policing said: “There clearly are negotiations to be had around the transfer of functions and how effectively those resources are transferred from the UK level to the Welsh level.

“We will be robust and energetic in those discussions with our UK counterparts.”

Labour’s Mr Hedges once again weighed in on the debate, affirming his support for the devolution of policing.

He referred back to a debate he led in 2013 that received majority support in the Siambr calling for the its devolution.

He said: “Policing is devolved to Northern Ireland, Scotland, London, and other areas with elected mayors, but not to Wales.

“Different devolution settlements for Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland do not work, as I said earlier.

“Currently, Wales gets 20% extra for devolved services than England gets. Why would it be different for policing?”

Welsh Liberal Democrats leader, Jane Dodds, also voiced her support for the devolution of policing.

She said: “Unlike Reform UK, I do want to talk about something that affects the people of Wales directly and affects women.

“The devolution of justice and policing is not an abstract debate – it has real human consequences, and in the last Senedd, the equality and social justice committee concluded that the current devolution settlement is causing direct harm to women in Wales.”

Ms Dodds continued: “There is no women’s prison in Wales. Welsh women serving custodial sentences are held in England far from their families and far from their communities, and far from the support services that they need.”

She called on the minister to share his plans for securing these powers, along with a timetable for when it can be expected.

Dr Trystan Davies responded: “There are a number of issues there in terms of services for women that are currently not good enough under the current justice system.

“I do think that there is work to be done in terms of the justice system and devolution. There is work to be done in terms of policing that is related to devolution.

“In order to make progress on this, we must build an effective, productive relationship with the UK Government. A meeting has already been arranged with the minister for policing in the UK, the Deputy First Minister, and myself.”