Welsh Conservative MS blasts Reform UK in revealing podcast interview

Emily Price

A Welsh Conservative Senedd Member has blasted former colleagues that defected to Reform UK in a revealing interview that explored whether the Tories would do a deal with Nigel Farage’s party at the Senedd election.

South Wales West MS Tom Giffard told the Senedd Sources podcast that he wasn’t disappointed that the a number of “fair weather” Tories with “questionable credentials” had jumped ship to Reform UK.

The Tory MS’s former shadow cabinet colleague Laura Anne Jones and his ex-staffer Francesca O’ Brien were among recent Conservative deserters.

Giffard said: “I think the measure of anybody really, and how much you stand up for the things you believe in, is whether you can stick by them in bad times as well as in good.

“I haven’t been overly disappointed with a lot of the people that have left, if I can put it delicately.

“From my perspective, I don’t think a clean slate is the worst thing either.

“I think that some of the people that have gone to Reform, both in the Senedd and in Westminister, sometimes have records that I probably wouldn’t want to go on a TV show and defend.

“So I don’t think it’s the worst idea, as we’re rebuilding and setting ourselves up as a party with a new and exciting future I hope, to have new and exciting and fresh voices to do that.”

The shadow counsel general admitted his party in Westminister had made mistakes towards the end of its time in power but said he was encouraged by the “authentically Conservative” messaging being put out by new Tory leader, Kemi Badenoch.

However, Giffard warned that the Conservatives across the border were at a different stage in their campaign cycle as they prepared for a general election some years off.

Here in Wales, the Welsh Conservatives have only five months before the public goes to the polls to vote for who the want representing them in a brand new Senedd.

Challenging

Giffard said that getting Welsh specific messaging out via the media would prove challenging – but that it was important his party in Wales were clear about they stood for.

On a deal with Reform the other side of the Senedd election, the shadow counsel general accused Farage’s party of committing to too many left-leaning policies.

He said: “I think the more that we can show people that we are an authentically Conservative party and this other party that professes to be right-wing but actually talks about greater benefits for those that are not in work – they are not a right-wing party in the same way that we are.

“So their authentic Conservative credentials are not there in the same way that I think ours are – and that’s the message that we need to get across and hopefully people will then draw their own conclusions.”

UK Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch and Tory Senedd leader Darren Millar have both declined to rule out deals with Reform UK.

But Giffard said his party had merely confirmed it would be open to work with other parties as long as there are “shared aims, visions and goals” adding that the nature of Senedd politics is that deals can be struck.

Deals

The Welsh Tories recently entered into budget talks with the Welsh Government in the hopes of getting Conservative policy agreements from Labour.

However, Welsh ministers opted to instead forge an agreement with Plaid Cymru MSs who have pledged to vote through the Welsh Government’s spending plans provided there was more money for local councils and health services.

Giffard said his party’s talks were serious – but were also a signal of intent to show what his party stood for.

He said: “We want to cut income tax in Wales, scrap business rates and get rid of stamp duty. All these things are to grow and improve our economy and help people with the cost of living pressures.

“They are the things we want to achieve. I regret that we couldn’t do it this year with the budget talks. But I think once Plaid came to the table, it was the only game in town at that point.”

The Tory MS went on to say that although he believed it’s important to point out Plaid’s links with Welsh Labour, it’s also important that Conservative messaging in the run up to the Senedd election strongly reflects what his party stands for.

He said: “There’s a genuine appetite out there for change in some way.

“Most voters would agree that they [Welsh Labour] are starting to run out of steam and are running out of ideas.

“I think it’s difficult for Plaid Cymru to occupy a space where they can profess themselves to be the change that Wales needs because they have been so intrinsically involved in that record over that period of time. It’s probably a similar story for the Lib Dems as well.

“The problem with Reform is they don’t have that plan to be able to deliver that change.

“They are excellent at being able to point out problems and point out issues – but they are not so good at coming up with solutions that are costed and credible.

“So I think people, I hope, will reach the inevitable conclusion that if you want change and you want things done radically differently in Wales, then you actually want a party with a plan to deliver it. Then the only option on the ballot is the Welsh Conservatives.”

Change

Whilst the Conservatives were the party in power in Westminister up until last year, the Tories have never been in power in the Senedd and have never struck a deal with the Welsh Government.

Describing his party as the “long-term bridesmaid in Welsh politics” Giffard admitted it would be a challenge for his party to illustrate that it could represent “change”.

With the Tories predicted to gain only 10% of the vote at the Senedd election in May, the Senedd Sources podcast asked Giffard if he feared losing the South Wales West seat he won in 2021.

Giffard said: “I genuinely feel more encouraged when I actually go out and knock doors and speak to real people and it doesn’t feel as bad, touch wood, as the polls would suggest.

“I think the big thing none of us know, including those Labour members who are probably nervous as well, is how this new voting system will work and kind of all orthodoxies of politics that we have all accepted over a period of time, how they will translate.”

At the Senedd election next year, the first-past-the-post voting system will be axed with MSs elected via a proportional voting system known as D’Hondt.

Morale

Wales’ current 40 constituencies and five regions will disappear and the country will be divided into 16 super constituencies represented by six MSs.

The total number of politicians in Cardiff Bay all increase from 60 to 96 – a change the Welsh Conservatives strongly oppose.

Giffard told the Senedd Sources podcast he thought the new proportional system would “sever” the link between politicians and their parties – making it harder for candidates to reach voters on a personal level.

He said: “The hope that I would cling on to is that I feel like I have a record at least locally that I’m very happy to defend and tell people about the things that I’ve been up to locally in Swansea.

“But does that work in this system? I guess that’s the big unknown.”

Asked how the Tories can encourage candidates to get out and campaign across Wales when it’s unlikely they will win seats, Giffard said morale was “pretty high”.

He said: “I think you can get caught in your own mind about polls and the things you see on Twitter and all of the rest of it.

“I remember a volunteer saying to me that Farage had said the Conservative party was finished – and I thought, well he would say that wouldn’t he, that’s in his interests to be saying those things.

“But they don’t reflect the conversations I’ve been having on the doors.”

Listen to the full Senedd sources podcast here.