Why does BBC Scotland get double the funding for programmes in English than BBC Wales?

Martin Shipton

The outgoing Director General of the BBC has been put on the spot by an MS who asked him why Scotland gets twice as much funding for programmes in English than Wales.

Tim Davie, who is due to step down from his role as the broadcaster’s most senior executive, was asked to explain the apparent anomaly during an evidence session at the Senedd’s Culture committee which considered the impending renewal of the BBC’s Royal Charter, which sets out expectations about how it should operate.

Labour MS Lee Waters asked: “How do you justify spending double the amount on English language on content than in Scotland?”

Mr Davie responded: “There’s difference in the broadcasting shape, there’s difference in the population numbers, there’s all kinds of differences.”

Mr Waters interrupted and said: “Not half there isn’t.”

Mr Davie resumed: “If you take different parts of the UK, they’re looking at how much they’ve invested within their region or their nation in relation to the licence fee. In Wales we’re spending £221m [against around £188.5m raised by the licence fee]. Don’t take this the wrong way, because I would push that further. But I’m just looking at the metrics, saying we have different shapes.

“I do recognise the challenge, which is that you’ve got a channel [a separate channel in Scotland] and channels pull through volume. … But to be clear, we want to grow money in Wales. The creative success of Wales is very potent at the moment. We’re looking at the [new BBC Charter] around the numbers, but we’re also looking at a creative business: attracting talent, bringing people, the quality of the productions. The fact you’ve had hits this year in my world is material. Your creative delivery is strong. That will attract more money, alongside policy objectives.”

Labour MS Alun Davies said: “I accept all of that, but I think Lee’s point stands, and his challenge stands. I’m not sure that you’ve fully answered that.

“If you look at BBC Scotland, [the extra money] enables them to do different things. I watch Scottish football every so often on it, which I couldn’t do using BBC Wales services. It is what it is in terms of the genre available, the breadth of coverage available and the reflection of the country back to it.”

‘Defensive’

Mr Davie said: “To answer the point directly, we recognise the issue. We want to increase Welsh spend. I’m being marginally defensive, if I may, about our current investment levels versus what’s created in Wales attracts. So we’re in the middle here. But I do take the point, which is that we could do more and we’re quite excited about doing more.”

Alun Davies raised concerns about the level of political scrutiny provided by BBC Wales programmes. He said: “I look at the challenge given to ministers in other administrations in the UK. It might not feel like it some time for those sitting in those [ministerial] seats, but there isn’t sufficient challenge from the BBC on this place, You do stories – easy stories, to some extent – but virtually never cover committees in this place the way you cover committees in Westminster, and I’ve seen covered in Holyrood. You virtually never cover some of the debates that take place here. The days when The Times would just print out Hansard are long gone, I accept all of that.

“However, we do govern this country and that demands a level of not just news coverage, but also then of scrutiny. My concern is, in terms of the volume of broadcasting hours, you simply don’t have the capacity to provide sufficient scrutiny and accountability for politicians who serve here, and that then means that you’re not serving the people who are governed in Wales by this place. So there is a really serious issue there, and I think that is then placed directly into the role of the BBC in terms of Charter Renewal.

“What would be useful would be if you perhaps wrote to the committee outlining some of the plans that you have for extending the service provided in Wales over the next Charter period – what your ambitions are, what your vision is to be, and how that will be funded. The point made by Lee is a fundamental point of inequality in the union – and I don’t think the numbers argument gets close to answering the equality question. I think the BBC does have a requirement. I pay your salary by law, and therefore you have a responsibility which goes over and above any other broadcaster, and that means serving the audiences in Wales properly.”

‘Hold power to account’

BBC Director of Regions Rhuanedd Richards responded: “The one thing I would say is I believe passionately that we do need to hold power to account, and we do need to reflect this institution. It is absolutely a vital part of our mission.

“At our news programme only this week we sent out a news alert about a story about somebody departing from the Conservative Party group, for example.”

Mr Davies said it was covered well, but it was not the norm.

Ms Richards said: “What I would challenge you on about that is, when you think of our increased audiences on our Breakfast programme on Radio Wales, where we’re holding more people to account now than ever before I would argue – that’s a good news story.”