Pylons where once were angels
Mari Mitchell
‘Pylons where once were angels
And the concrete damming the brook.’
D Gwenallt Jones 1899 -1968
Well, I never! Natural Resources Wales have won a gold award (independently judged) at the Royal Welsh Show, for Woodland Management of Brechfa East woodland. Using the Low Impact Silvicultural System (LISS).
This, NRW says, is ‘a big win for sustainable, low-impact woodland management’.
But wait! Isn’t this the same area of forest where the Welsh Government, under the mantle of Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, want to erect 27 industrial size turbines of 200 metres height, with a network of pylons to carry the electricity? The same area which is of great historic significance under its original name of Glyn Cothi, a Royal Forest once formed of kingly oaks and other broadleaved trees, habitat for an abundance of flora and fauna to this day.
Under siege
Those who love, live or work in the unrivalled beauty of the Cothi Valley in Carmarthenshire (indeed, all of Wales is under siege now) have another fight on their hands. One we thought we’d won in Brechfa East when the power company withdrew its application. One of many the whole country is facing.
Because wind power and the pursuit of net-zero is the driving force, and all else must fall before it, even if it’s unattainable. Because common sense and compromise have no place here.
Yes, we need to generate more electricity for our needs from renewable resources, not fossil fuels. But do we need to desecrate our countryside in an unswerving commitment to the great god of commercial wind power.
Do we not have seas and tides around us, rivers, and reservoirs? Acres of roofs to put solar panels on, instead of engulfing good agricultural land with solar panel farms and pylons?
Do we not have scientists and conservationists who could produce valid, ethical, and less harmful solutions to future and existing problems?
That’s how I feel. Now for some facts.
Ten turbines of 110 metres high were erected near Alltwallis in 2008. Another wind farm was established in Brechfa West of 28 turbines, height 145 metres, on Natural Resources Wales land adjacent to Llanllwni Mountain. This became operational in 2018, and the cables carrying the electricity to the power station in Llandyfaelog were placed underground.
Bute GreenGen have the go-ahead for an industrial scale wind farm in mid-Wales with electricity to be carried mainly on steel pylons to the sub station. Another 30 acres of good agricultural land have been purchased to house this substation.
Softener
The Welsh Government’s company, Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, proposes a further 27 turbines of about 200 metres in Brechfa East, travelling through some of the most attractive parts of the Cothi Valley. As a softener, it is also proposing that electricity would be carried on wooden poles to the sub station. However, the size of turbines and the infrastructure is increasing with each stage of the pursuit of ‘green energy’.
Wales already produces more electricity than it consumes. The mantra is that establishing vast wind farms with concomitant infrastructure will lead to lower energy bills. That has yet to happen.
Moreover, there is a lack of honesty in fully evaluating the benefits of these developments. Their effectiveness is only recorded once the turbines are up and running.
The cost of manufacturing, transportation and construction; the irreversible damage to farmland and natural environment; the effect on the rural population’s mental health; the morality of using materials, some toxic, mined or produced in other countries for our benefit, none of these are made clear in the costings.
Lack of clarity
There is lack of clarity in the cost to the consumer of downtime, when the blades are still, either because there is no wind or because too much electricity is being produced, when constraint payments are made, or, in some areas, to protect migratory birds.
Just as Wales has been left with slag heaps from coal mines and nuclear waste still to be dealt with, the vast tonnes of concrete used as bases for turbines and pylons will be left for future generations to deal with.
Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru has stated that the concrete bases will be left in situ as it would be more disruptive to remove them. Those areas, then, will remain barren, having removed habitat, and change water courses permanently.
How clean is green?
What are we leaving for future generations?
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Drax has a nice look to it, if you like a desolation. Ratcliffe on Sour, always impressive as you drive by but a blot. Hinckly looks futuristic but you know that is thousands of years of waste being created.
Turbines are not really a problem. We laso need an integrated supply and storage and hopefully that will come.
Problem to whom? Those who use the power and pass them occasionally? You’re right there. But try living 500 metres from 27 220metre high turbines, and having your local beauty spots decimated and your tourism business wrecked.
Part time tourist here. It will never prevent me from travelling this country.
Ever.
We need power. Wind is a great way to make it.
A place that isn’t polluted to high heaven with coal and other particulates, giving them better health for longer. Apparently that’s not popular though so bring back the coal power stations, open up the mines again, turn the south wales valleys back into the black industrial hellscape that it used to be!
Wind turbines, coal mines… yes it’s a case of pick one.
How about natural gas (methane)?
Then you’re going to need the infrastructure that goes with it. Natural gas needs to be extracted, stored, transported… I mean if you want a huge methane gas extraction plant in the area I’m sure the government would accommodate.
Thanks for responding; what about importing LNG via Haverfordwest, Wales…
Leakage is a huge problem, and methane is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2
smae, the infrastructure already exists! Nobody is extracting natural gas in Wales and nobody is going to do so, because there isn’t any. But it is still available in the North Sea, and the infrastructure exists to bring it ashore and pipe it across the country. Unfortunately we have a government that refuses to use our own resources and won’t issue licences for increased UK production. Instead, they prefer to rely on imported LNG that arrives through two terminals in Milford Haven and one in Kent. This is considerably more expensive and also increases CO2 emissions by 20% compared to… Read more »
So what you’re saying is… Lets carve up Scottish land in a much worse way than Welsh land because someone wants a hill to look pretty? This isn’t a UK problem, this is a Welsh problem it’s about making Wales self sufficient and sustainable in the long term. If we declare independence which is the objective of Plaid Cymru and the Yes Cymru campaign we will not have access to that oil or gas. We may not even have access to the interconnections from England or Ireland either. Fossil fuels are on their way out, there’s virtually no need for… Read more »
Who mentioned carving up Scottish land? Most British natural gas is brought ashore into Easington and Teesside (England). Some is also brought ashore at St Fergus (Scotland), but the point is the infrastructure already exists – there is no need to carve up land in Scotland, Wales or England, simply use the infrastructure we already have. Regarding Welsh independence, England will be short of natural gas for many years to come, and the fact that we have two LNG import terminals in Pembrokeshire, add that to a large oil refinery and our electricity surplus and we’ll have plenty of energy… Read more »
But Wales will not benefit from the plethora of wind farms and pylons. The electricity will go across the border and abroad. The beneficiaries are the big companies and governments who allow this industrialisation. I don’t think anyone is against wind power, but we would like a more rational approach to providing it.
We don’t want fossil fuels, no matter where they come from.
Really? You don’t want insulators in your electrical system? Or pharmaceuticals? Or diesel to power tractors, cranes, trains etc? Or fuel oil to ship everything you buy from China to you? Or pharmaceuticals? Or upholstery? Or soles on your shoes? Or detergents? Or carpets? Or a mobile phone? Or a computer? Or a hose pipe? Or welly boots? Even if you drive an electric car, where do you think the brake fluid, power steering fluid, bumpers, tyres, lubes & greases, lamp glasses, door & window seals and practically the entire interior came from? And what do you think the road… Read more »
Don’t be silly, we qre talking about burning fossil fuels, not using them for all the things you list and more. Because they are so important for many uses, burning them is incredibly stupid as they will not last for ever. Nice try though.
You write too much common sense. You will be regarded as heretic on here by the extreme adherents of whatever green gospel is fashionable today.
So to sum up what youre saying: Wales deserves wind farms, BESS, pylons, substations, for their own good and to allow the UK to reach net zero. They should consider themselves lucky they (and their children) are not forced back down the coalmines…..
Is it?
Think about what happens if Wales suddenly decides it wants independence. Having all this energy infrastructure means that not only can it be self sufficient but it can also survive on them by selling the excess energy and able to do it at net zero. Energy requirements are going up, basically no one is using less energy than they did 5 years ago never mind 10 or 20 years ago. So yes the choice is either: Coal mines, or Turbines. I know which I prefer. I would much rather the jobs and infrastructure come to Wales where we have had… Read more »
You are living in a dream land if you think a wind turbine on every piece of open ground in Wales would mean ‘fossil fuel power stations are not necessary anywhere’.
Second point: how many jobs do you think are created in Wales by the wind industry? A tiny fraction that were employed by the mines, and far less than were employed by the Pembrokeshire oil industry at its peak.
Third point: Can I remind you that Wilson’s Labour government closed 253 mines – more than double the number closed by Thatcher (115).
Even if we re-opened all the mines… a tiny fraction would be employed compared to back in the 1980s, tech has improved. I consider the jobs of a cleaner and more sustainable industry to be of better value to Wales than dirty, polluting, dangerous and unsustainable jobs such as mining coal or oil out of the ground. All the scientific evidence shows that we’ve already extracted and have burned more oil than the climate can put up with. But hey if you guys want a coal mine open up in this valley instead, by all means. Go for it. But… Read more »
I’ll look forward to seeing the fossil fuel fans queueing up at the Job Centre to sign on as miners!
What you conveniently forget is that the Wilson government co-operated with the unions to close down pits which were mostly worked out, as well as adequate arrangements for redundancies and retraining. And cut out the reductio ad absurdam argument, which is a typical trope of the hard-of-thinking; no-one is talking about putting turbines everywhere, that is ridiculous.
Go for a walk in any part of Wales and you will see they already are pretty much everywhere!
I can,t see any from my house, high up on the valley side with a view for miles. Cut out the hyperbole, it makes you sound ridiculous.
The vast majority of renewables in Wales belong to private companies, and the profits ho to the shareholders., as in the UK as a whole. London actually pays £100 a year less for electricity than Wales and Scotland where most renewable energy is produced.
That is an argument for public ownership in this country, it’s not an argument against renewables.
I lived in Ceredigion for many years, in sight of a wind farm. They are beautiful modern sculptures and a sign that not every human is careless of the state of the planet we are leaving to the children. They are great wind vanes too; one glance and I knew whether to wear an overcoat!
Constraint payments are only made if the grid doesn’t have capacity, not if there is no wind Wales has the potential to generate 150% of 2050 electricity demand only from offshore wind, so there is no need at all for onshore wind to achieve net zero. It is driven entirely by a short term political ambition, not a statutory need Wales currently exports electricity because of all the gas we burn in Pembroke, Uskmouth and Connah’s Quay power stations, but that should significantly reduce by 2030. However, the long term plan is that Wales will continue exporting electricity after gas… Read more »
Nice article BTW
The pylons they have fitted just south of Bristol that cross the M5 south look really nice. Why can’t they fit those here in south wales rather than the ugly rustic steel looking structures?
Anything that is not natural in the countryside looks ugly.
I am trying to find a middle ground. Literally, because the government doesn’t have the funds to put these cables under ground.
I’m not really convinced underground is even better for the environment. Isn’t it necessary to damage hedgerows etc by digging a trench through the countryside?
hedgerows are unnatural anyway and they can grow back so it’s not a huge problem. The bigger problem for hedgerows are farmers removing them and putting fences in their place.
See my comment above.
An independent study has found the cost of pylons and undergrounding on a par. Undergrounding, however, is a ‘permissable development’, not requiring planning permission. Pylons require planning permission, and once obtained becomes a saleable asset. That is why pylons are more desirable to development companies than undergrounding.
We don’t want them underground, didn’t you see the recent report on oil leakage from underground cables causing massive pollution of the soil?
Those were the cables of yesteryear. Old cables from when undergrounding was new. Newer cables don’t have the same problems.
Such as carefully mown fields, neat hedges, big metal cow sheds, and farmers’ bungalows? Yes, all natural, when the first humans arrived they found them already here.
I’m a bit nonplussed by all this animus against pylons. But that’s probably because I grew up as a kid less than a couple of miles from the point where Greater Manchester suburbia morphed into farmed north Cheshire countryside. In the late 1950s and early ’60s I spent large chunks of my weekends and school holidays wandering those lanes and field footpaths. And quite normatively there were pylons visible much of the time. They were just there: our suburbia had mushroomed up during the interwar years, everyone needed electricity, and the consequence was numerous sub-stations and an adjacent countryside fringed… Read more »
https://www.pylons.org/
I wouldn’t say that I ‘appreciate’ pylons, any more than I actively dislike them!
It’s just that in my young days I never knew my local countryside devoid of pylons, with the consequence that I never really noticed them much. To me they were just another part of the landscape – like telegraph poles, lamp posts and railway lines.
Why does the WG allow outsiders to just march into Cymru and do what they like to our beautiful scenery? One could easily believe that someone must be benefitting, eh, wink wink.
yeah Welsh people.
Ample power is already being generated for the needs of Cymru thank you. The current plan of erecting more wind turbines and pylons is for the benefit of England so let them develop and generate electricity there. We already provide free water to England and enough free coal to keep them warm in the past. Is there no end to their greedy needs? What do we get free from England? I’ll tell you …… s*d all!!!
You’re forgetting about the jobs that are created in both building and maintaining these things. You’re also forgetting about the improvements to the National Grid that comes along with them, again, supporting Welsh households. Never mind that it reduces CO2 emissions and brings the cost of electricity down for everyone because we don’t have to spend on expensive coal. We’re not just talking about the electricity needs, we’re also talking about the energy mix. We’re also talking about future income for Wales if it should ever declare independence. Being able to sell energy to others would greatly benefit Wales. The… Read more »
How would Cymru benefit from selling energy when the likes of Bute energy and northern Europeans are the developers? Any profits would go directly to Scotland or Europe.
That’s less an argument against renewable energy and more an argument for public ownership.
But an Independent Wales would be able to tax those businesses and the export of energy.
There are always ways for the public sector to make money out of private enterprises.
Because with independence we could look to nationalising power generation, obvs.
Youclearly are naive. Jobs will not be created. Who do you think will own the assets, taxpayers? No foreign companies
Well there is certainly no evidence of reduced costs when it comes to household electricity bills.
For people who haven’t invested in their local scheme, this is true. However, the primary reason for this is because Westminster have tied electricity prices to the price of gas for some inexplicable reason. For those that have invested in their local scheme or have renewable energy sources themselves, they have seen a reduction in energy. Also those using certain tariffs with certain energy companies that I won’t name, also offer the ability to get cheaper energy when renewable energy supply is high. If you’re with one of the big non-agile companies, then yeah, you’re not going to see much… Read more »
It isn’t. It’s for Wales’s benefit.
The North and South Wales power grids are not joined together.
North Wales has some of the cleanest power in the UK, South Wales has some of the dirtiest.
People moan about the excess power going to England, but that’s the only place it can go unless you link the power grids of North and South Wales, but when proposals are made to do just that people moan about that too…
It’s nimbyism at its finest. I’m proud of the Wind Turbines near where I live. They also contribute directly to local charitable endeavours through grants and such and another project nearby is owned in part by the local community.
I assume that all the idiots downticking your entirely correct remarks don’t have electricity at home. Or is it just that they want the power stations well away from them, so some other poor people have to deal with the pollution?
The time for policy perfectionism was decades ago.
There’s a climate emergency now.
Trying to find solutions everyone is happy with is impossible but when there’s no food because the harvests keeps failing we’ll wish we’d just put up with some slightly ugly pylons and turbines vs whatever hellscale meets us in the not too distant future.
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
If you are concerned about the so-called climate emergency, I suggest you start campaigning in China, India and the US. The impact of Wales’ emissions is miniscule and reducing every year as industry is shut down by increasing energy/carbon costs. If we stopped burning anything in Wales tomorrow, the climate wouldn’t notice a thing. China is opening a new coal-fired power station every two weeks and laughing at the way European governments are bankrupting their countries chasing unachievable goals. Meanwhile, China has cornered the market on manufacturing wind turbines, solar panels, batteries and electrolysers so they can profit from our… Read more »
China also produce more renewable energy than anywhere else in the world they are a much bigger country with far more people, and we can do better, much better. Fortunately my kids don’t live in India, China or the US, they live in Wales and would like cleaner air and a less polluted environment. Please note we can’t control what others do, we can only control what we do and if you want to live in a more polluted world, you’re welcome to move to the USA, China or India. The rest of us want cleaner energy that aren’t stupidly… Read more »
Oh no,not the old chestnut about China again. China produces massive amounts of solar and other renewables, and will phase out fossil fuels when they can do so without trashing the standard of living of their people. They also produce lots of electric vehicles, including the T1 bus from Carmarthen to Aber. Their per capita CO2 production is less than the UK, if you measure over the last 100 years (we industrialised sooner, they are catching up), and in a few years their CO2 rate will be less than ours. I bet you thought you were making a killer argument… Read more »
Your comment: “Oh no,not the old chestnut about China again”. Please note that “In 2024, China initiated construction on 94.5 gigawatts of NEW coal-fired power plants, a 10-year high. This surge in construction, despite government pledges to control coal use…”
Per capita consumption – based CO2 emissions : China 7.2 tonnes per annum, UK 7.2 tonnes per annum (2022 figures). Pot kettle black.
It doesn’t matter how much renewable energy they generate – it doesn’t come with negative emissions! Their coal production and coal consumption (more than half of the world’s total) is increasing year on year regardless of how many wind & solar projects they have. You might be naive enough to believe they plan to phase out fossil fuels but the evidence is to the contrary. Their policy is simple – more renewables, more coal, more nuclear, more oil, more gas. i.e. more of everything all at once, to drive down the price of energy and encourage industry and job creation.… Read more »
Population of China is 1.5 billion, UK population is 68 million. Chinese consumption of energy is indeed increasing, because they have a lot of people still living in poverty. Do you want them to stay that way? As the first industrial country, Britain has produced massive pollution over 250 years , so we would do well to lead by example rather than blaming other countries. The Chinese know perfectly well that coal won’t last for ever, so they are taking steps to find alternatives before that happens. Whereas we have Farage talking about re-opening mines.
This is just another case of Wales being plundered for its resources, as usual, while our cowardly and greedy government just lick the boot of the theives.
Clean energy and a few turbines to keep Wales supplied cheaply, yes.
Wales being destroyed for greedy companies and not seeing any benefit, no.
This has to stop.
I’m completely with you on Wales not seeing any benefit, absolutely Wales should benefit from any energy any as far as I’m concerned each Energy scheme should have the option of community investment and let people contribute in return for a slice of the profits. Whether that’s people individually, community groups, parish councils or whatever.
Don’t forget that if we own the energy, we can sell excess to others in return for financial benefit for Wales.
#independence