YesCymru or Not Yet Cymru?
Dr Cinzia Yates
Wales is a nation. There can be no disputing that. Wales has all the constituent parts of a nation; a distinct culture, language, history and shared values. It may be hard to put your finger on, but Wales is Wales.
Wales has always been left leaning; it has consistently voted Labour for over 100 years. By left I mean a general sense of collectivism as opposed to the ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude prevalent across the border.
This collectivism is seen in local communities, the chapel, the oddfellows, the local eisteddfods, young farmers, the mosque…
Latterly collectivism led the miners strikes and unions movements. Migrants to Wales whether in Tiger Bay or Italian café owners or evacuee children (and more recently Ukrainian refugees) were welcomed with open arms. It was Welshness in action. That intangible aspect of Welshness that isn’t language or folk dancing or architecture, but those shared values of community and understanding that go toward making Wales a nation.
Shared values
I was therefore shocked to find this key aspect of Welshness missing from those who ran YesCymru. I’ve been volunteering for national(ist) organisations since I was a child, supporting Celtic nations and making sure their positive aspects of nationhood, of inclusion, joy and pride were at the forefront.
I’m not a politician, but I write a mean set of minutes and can organise a conference standing on my head. So these were the things I offered to support a collective campaign for an Independent Wales. (I’ve also studied Celtic identities pretty extensively…)
The first meeting I attended was an extraordinary meeting to ‘discuss resources’. The meeting was not a meeting at all, but just criticism of the recently appointed CEO. There was no sense of collective objectives, no mutual support, no understanding, no responsibility.
It was clear that there was a central clique of directors who thought it was a parish council and they could do what they liked. It was like a middle-aged Mean Girls.
For that clique on the board, the need to be rid of the CEO became all-encompassing and everything else fell by the wayside as a variety of flimsy and unsubstantiated excuses to remove the CEO were proposed and discussed and discussed again.
As the largest organisation of its kind, YesCymru should represent a model of an independent Wales. It should carry with it the Welshness in action; language, culture, acceptance, community.
6500 people coming together for a common cause, regardless of politics, age, colour, creed; swelling to 10,000 people who march for those values.
I saw none of that in the YesCymru clique. What I saw there was a microcosm of Tory Westminster. Individualism ruled the roost, with rules and laws contorted to breaking point or ignored altogether.
The need to satisfy individual egos took over leading to cronyism and bullying. One director went as far as to use YesCymru money without authorisation to obtain legal advice and manipulated the situation so that he was made chair of the board – a role which, within an egalitarian organisation should have been more about the admin than power.
There was no sense of collectivism, no sense of community, no sense of the greater good. Just an unnecessary power grab.
‘You’re fired’
Then came the sackings. In an organisation supporting a nation where labour laws were hard fought and won, these labour laws were (knowingly) flouted and an American style ‘you’re fired’ approach taken against company directors and the CEO.
But then came the truly shocking, the truly sad part of this sorry tale. Things were bad enough that those who were still true to the collective mission could no longer manage the issues from within and needed to tell the members.
Members needed to know what the people ‘elected’ to lead their organisation and to manage their money were up to so they could take collective action to right the floundering ship.
We called an EGM but this was cancelled. We tried to contact the members by email but were falsely accused of GDPR breaches (members seemed more concerned with how they were told than what they were told).
We made the difficult decision to go to the press. We expected an angry membership to ask questions, call for change, demand the organisation get back on track and represent their want for an independent Wales.
Instead, we got a shrug. There was little reaction to the awful behaviour of their ’elected’ representatives, but instead attacks against those of us trying to keep YesCymru a transparent and credible organisation for ‘rocking the boat’.
Troll accounts appeared on X/Twitter accusing us of a conspiracy to take down the organisation, of us being state actors. And most bizarre of all they attacked the press and the individual journalist for covering the story.
Where was the passion for independence? Where was the drive to show that YesCymru was what Wales could be – inclusive, transparent, fair, democratic? Where was the confidence? The fire in the dragon’s belly? Where was that inimitable Welshness that focussed on community and collective responsibility?
Sadly, for all the marches and banner waving and stickers on street furniture it seems that the YesCymru membership has become a hollow symbol of a Wales now gone. A Wales poisoned by ‘culture wars’ and ‘fake news’ and apathy towards corruption and cronyism so rife in the government it purports to want to escape (mirrored by concerning apathy about a corrupt potential First Minister).
That YesCymru badge now has as much meaning as a Cymru t-shirt on holiday, or a daffodil on St David’s Day. A toothless nod towards a culture
and a nation that is gone. If Wales doesn’t want to fight for nationhood, for its shared values – then why would I?
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Cinzia don’t give up, the majority of us still hold the values you wrote about and still want Yes Cymru to change for the better, to find it’s mojo again. If you/we give up we would be resigning our children to a poverty filled future, that isn’t right no matter how bad Yes Cymru have become. It’s time the Welsh independence movement got it’s act together and I’m sure you’ll be a major part of it – persevere!
And yet the latest, the 7th I think, in the past two months of “opinion pieces – or revelations” published in Nation Cymru emanating from a small but destructive element who wish to see YesCymru and the campaign for Welsh independence collapse … you have to ask why. I’m not Welsh, I don’t speak Welsh but have been an active member for a number of years and the picture Dr Cinzia Yates tries to paint of YesCymru is far from my experience of the organisation What is now become very clear through all of this is that a small group within YesCymru disagreed… Read more »
The board was split so we called an EGM. It was not a majority/minority issue. But it became a majority by illegally sacking Directors (an investigation was carried out but because the clique didn’t like the outcome they attacked the process and suppressed the result). The ‘destructionists’ were organising the conference, developing a long term umbrella strategy, developing an income strategy and regular giving scheme, writing debate articles, developing the CoD, arranging regular Question Time events, resurrecting the research group, developing cross party and special interest groups. How many of those things are happening now the ‘destructionists’ have been pushed… Read more »
Great comment, I agree with every word.
On our way Cymru 🏴
This is a journey with a clear destination
I am one of the members of Yes Cymru that Cinzia mentions, who should have reacted angrily to events but remained silent. This was not due to apathy, but to incredulity. It seems to me that Yes Cymru has one straightforward objective: to persuade a substantial majority of the people of Wales that independence would be better than the current unfair system of rule from Westminster. Given this objective, there are obvious ways to move forward. Organising rallies such as those in Caernarfon and Merthyr can provide excellent publicity, and gives encouragement to those present. Arranging discussions and producing publications on topics… Read more »
I was with the author up to the point where she turned on the membership & the people of Cymru in general. I don’t agree with the “shrug of the shoulders” or ” apathy” part but what I think you’ll find is exasperation & confusion at what’s been going on & with various statements being spread about & coming from all quarters. It’s turned into a they said you said scenario where large numbers of the membership (myself included) are keeping our powder dry for the time being. The previous CEO was accused of not increasing membership numbers during his… Read more »
May I ask, as one of many members who has expressed this frustration, how would you like to have got this information? In an ideal world, how should directors aware of wrong doing by other directors alert the membership? We were so close in time to the last issues we tried to sort things internally. Maybe we were naive and should have brought in the membership earlier. By the time it became obvious we HAD to tell you all of our comms channels had been removed. We put all our hope into the EGM as the time to bring it… Read more »
No criticism of the fact the messages are being put out there was intended Cinzia, just pointing out that all sides involved were shouting out loud & ferociously putting there points across but at times it became rather confusing to ordinary members. Between the e-mails from the board, other parties such as yourself & of course Martin Shipton reporting on matters & all stating their case as they see it, while all sides of the arguments/events should be put forward I think a lot of the membership are remaining neutral for the time being. In my humble opinion if the… Read more »
Six people broke the rules and mis spent member’s money. They breached company law. I’m frustrated because this is not about opinions or ideology. It is very clear cut. But the liars have shouted the loudest and used underhand tactics. There will be no getting back on track with a board that have cancelled all activity and lost just about all the staff. They can’t even get into their emails. We needed to membership to call for the resignation of the chair for bullying his way in and spending your money and lying to the membership. But they didn’t. And… Read more »
Some lazy un-evidenced assertions in the article about differences in social attitudes between Wales and England. The actual evidence suggests the differences are not large and don’t all go in the same direction. And that it is wrong to regard England as homogeneous.
https://tfl.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/media/documents/Trust_for_London_Final_Report_to_TL_FINAL_FORMATTED_.pdf
Rank and file membership need to identify and toss out the bad apples. Anyone trying to suppress debate or communication should be seen as contrary to the interest of the movement. The only dictatorship should be that of the rank and file. People appointed/elected into senior leadership roles should accept the caveat – behave or you are out !
Even better that they are not leaders in the accepted sense, but delegates subject to immediate recall. That way it’s clear that they do what the membership wants or they’re gone!
What we have here is an individual who hasn’t had her own way and so reverts to having a tantrum via the media. Although Nation Cymru is entirely neutral in its reporting and publishing of opinions, this not the first time a nudge -nudge article by someone with an axe to grind, attacking Yes Cymru has been published. Why hasn’t Dr Yates taken up this matter with the chair? Or if she feels so strongly, written to the governors individual;y, or chairs of the groups? No, easier to play the hurt card and in so doing is damaging the cause.… Read more »
Read the article again John. We took it up with both chairs. And all the Directors (I was a Director). We went to the groups. We called an EGM because the board was split (so I’m not acting as an individual) and the chair’s legitimacy was questioned. We followed all the rules (both laws and YC rules) and told nothing but the truth. The chair(s) didn’t. Going to the press is the only way to tell the members. This started in August – we sat on it until it became impossible. I’m always happy to be open and transparent and… Read more »
If we do nothing, nothing will be done. It’s quite a simple premise. The Scots did something and nearly grasped freedom with both hands until they were lied to by the Westminster establishment with promises of DevoMax which never happened. We now see the consequences of their failure. Labour & Tories waiting in the wing to ensure they (Scotland) never have the opportunity to become independent by slowly putting barriers in the way and defaming those leaders with mudslinging and character assassination. A classic technic used. And where we (Wales) comes into the equation. Why is it that Wales out… Read more »
I try very hard not to attack or denigrate others, I’ve always believed that once personal attacks are made, the argument falls. I am making an exception here. Apparently, Dr Yates can “organise a conference standing on my head.” The Yes Cymru Summer conference was announced the previous in December, thus allowing six months to organise. Whilst it was not quite a shambles, I have certainly been to better organised events. Badly marketed. order of speakers re- arranged without notice, discussion groups not organised and panels re-arranged. Bluntly, attendance was poor and that more than anything reflected on how badly… Read more »
I had nothing to do with the last conference. I was brought on board to arrange 2024 because I told YC how terrible 2023 was (I was there and it was a shambles). Look at Companies House and you’ll see I was made a Director July 2023. I’ve been in event organising and management since I was a kid. I was well on the way with 2024 but the clique had cancelled it without telling me and removed my email so I couldn’t let speakers know. If you’re going to break your rule of not denigrating others find out who… Read more »
I’m still up for a chat about the realities of the situation. And feel free to apologise for questioning my professional expertise based on an event I had no part in organising…
You are the one who should be apologising. Instead of accepting there are problems and thinking about how to resolve them – or alternatively simply walking away – you have chosen to damage the cause through your overblown ego.
I’ve been a nationalist all my life and I’ve been more than once in unhappy situations and disputes, but NEVER went rushing to the media.
Please go away.
I spent six months trying to resolve them. The people in charge have caused this. I’m just the messenger letting the members know what their ‘elected’ Directors are up to. I cannot solve law breaking unfortunately. If anything destroys YC it will be that. I’d have expected someone like you to be capable of a level of critical thinking above the general mob. Who is still there? Who did they get rid of? What have the cancelled? What are they planning? And I still didn’t organise the 2023 conference and you still made a mistake that a better man would… Read more »
A further comment. I have just read the messages that followed this. Congratulations! You ave succeeded in getting committed nationalist to call for the end of Yes Cymru.
I repeat. Please go away and take your ego with you.
I was, until quite recently, a happy and excited member of YesCymru who attended as many marches as I could across the length and breadth of the country. Then I lost confidence when it was revealed the organisation had appointed, what was it, 12 or 15 directors? What the hell?! The bureaucracy must NEVER EVER be allowed to usurp the movement and it’s simple, fundamental message again. When that lesson is put in place I’ll be back.
Arnie.
Shut. Yes. Cymru. Down. It has not moved us forwards it is pulling us down. Join Plaid/Greens/Gwlad and win the mandate at the ballot box. YesCymru was ruined first by ideological purists and then by a bunch of ego’s in excess of their capabilities. All we hear is of the toxicity and incompetence at the heart of this bloviated organisation. Enough!
You don’t need to shut it down. Just let people walk away from it in numbers and leave it to those who will plot anything but our secession from the UK. The departed members can then go on to create something more appropriate to the national cause and be guarded against overdoing the bureaucracy and “important jobs” for self important people.
It certainly needs to die a quiet death now. I’m not interested in a bunch of purists or ego’s dragging our cause into the gutter. So much fuss in our movement over this organisation. Our focus should be winning votes for pro indy parties. I was an early member and had high hopes. But it never lived up to its promise and I quite frankly find the whole thing to be drenched in pomposity now. All we needed was a simple, grassroots, non-partisan umbrella campaign. A platform to advance the cause of Democratic Welsh Statehood. Instead we have a sideshow… Read more »
If you are not happy with it, just leave and join another pro-independence organisation (or not, as the case may be).
I did. Keeping its corpse animated is only making matters worse so I suggest others do the same (as the case appears to be already).
Wales hasn’t ‘always been left wing’.
Many Welsh people despise these collectivist ideologies and the nanny state. Opposing socialism doesn’t mean you oppose Wales. The far left are unelectable… most people in Wales want freedom, opportunity and MONEY.
And they always appear to vote for parties that cannot command a majority between them so what does that tell you?
A lot of people in Wales still vote Labour because they are poor think they’ll be better off financially under a Labour Government who will provide a safety net via the welfare state. They fear real change, it is a case if ‘better the devil you know’. The UK Labour Party in Wales is a mixtue of old Valleys councillors obsessed with small town power and status or ideological students/middle class NGO and public sector types from over the border equally obsessed with power and status over their Welsh subjects. In my opinion, they are miguided and real economic growth… Read more »
Speculation, opinion and whataboutery. Largely from a personal distaste for the Left by the looks of it.
Seems somewhat deluded too, if they think that Ireland needed to ‘reverse decades of socialist policies’. It would have been very hard to do that, as Ireland might have had an economy where the state was writ large, but it was far from being socialist. Nationalisation isn’t a preserve of socialism: in Spain under Franco much industry was nationalised, but I don’t think Franco was a socialist! And the great economic ‘success’ story is largely a sham, as ordinary Irish people haven’t benefitted that much, and much of the GDP is due to the presence of global corporations basing their… Read more »
Unlike England, Wales has not elected a Conservative Government since 1859. Look at any electoral map, which will tell you that politically and ideologically, Wales and England are different.
Even Starmer will not enact the sorts of policies adopted by the Labour administration in Cardiff, as doing so, would make him practically unelectable in England, where he needs to win the majority of his seats.
Too many articles about this now. I am not sure who is at fault, however the more I see of these articles, the more I wonder if there is an intent to undermine the organisation. If that is the case, be in no doubt that you are not just harming the organisation, but the entire independence movement as a whole. I that what you want? I was very concerned about initial reports of the CEO having been dismissed and I was initially very sympathetic, however having read official correspondence from the organisation which stated that he was dismissed to secure… Read more »
Unlike you I want to know what these people are doing rather than trying to pretend everything is fine. The behaviour of the board has been a dreadful betrayal of the members and the movement. They’ve turned YesCymru into a laughing stock.
You’re shooting the messenger. There are lots of articles because the current and previous chair broke so many rules. The members need to know what is happening because the ‘official’ communications are full of lies. If the CEO had done a bad job and the org was in financial sire straits (neither were true) why give him £20k severance without a minuted discussion?
As a company Director you are legally obliged to work in the best interest of the org and report any wrongdoing by other Directors. You don’t just walk away when someone starts behaving irresponsibly.
You’re missing the point. People are leaving/have left. The directors are continuing to drag the organisation into disrepute which has serious repercussions for the whole movement. At its best, YesCymru created a lot of noise on social media and got the odd short article on the mainstream. That’s nowhere near enough. It’s since fallen into ugly melee after ugly melee. The main reason for the rise in Indy support is the same as it was in 1997. Years of awful Tory governments. If we want Indy we have to persuade people to vote for it and the pro-indy organisation that… Read more »
I see people downvoting this but frankly I don’t care how unpopular it makes me with the Nation.Cymru commentariat. There should be no room for sentiment on this matter. We should be utterly clinical. I repeat, If we cannot win a democratic mandate for independence, we will not get it. Anything that detracts from winning votes for indy manifestoed parties, and right now Plaid remains our best bet, is a waste of time. Want to fight for control of YesCymru? Waste of time. Want to try to fight for indy via Welsh Labour? Waste of time. Want to snipe from… Read more »
All about me, me, me!
Couldn’t agree more!
Two directors sacked, four directors resigned, one staff member sacked, two resigned. Six people left in charge, none of whom seem to care about the members. Being willing to stand up for members and putting my head above the parapet in a last ditch attempt to wake members up to what is being done with their money benefits me in no way. Just more shooting the messenger and victim blaming. I’m not the first to speak up.
I have had grave misgivings about the way YesCymru is structured right from the first crisis some years ago. I was utterly gobsmacked to discover that the movement didn’t adopt a constitution as soon as it could, and that bad practices had established before the movement had even really got off the ground. I am a paying member, but on several occasions I have had to consider whether I want my money going to an organisation that seems to chaotic and unable to function in any recognisable manner. I’ve said this before, I think that much of the trouble is… Read more »